Ep 14: Why did we go on strike for International Women's Day?
Shownotes
In this episode, Joyann and Arima team member, Jade Pett, discuss why they were on strike this International Women's day and their thoughts on the marketing around the day.
You can watch the podcast here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfP1VmmJVpo&t=564s
The transcript can be found at: https://www.arimacompany.com/marketing-made-inclusive-podcast
Useful links:
https://www.internationalwomensday.com/
https://www.un.org/en/observances/womens-day/background
https://www.scottishwidows.co.uk/yourfuture.html
https://open.spotify.com/episode/0M641HKq0iToLVpwo4X5Uc
https://twitter.com/candiwrites/status/1633477525522333696
You can find Joyann at: https://twitter.com/joyannboyce
Transcript
[00:00:00] Joyann Boyce: Welcome to the Marketing Made Inclusive Podcast. I am your host, Joyann Boyce. On this podcast, we're gonna discuss all things inclusive marketing, from persona creation campaigns, and even some of the mishaps we see in the media. Tune in and let me know your thoughts on how we can make inclusive marketing the industry.
[00:00:23] Welcome and welcome back to the Marketing Made Inclusive Podcast. It's going to be a fun one today. Uh, today I'm joined by our very own Jade. Hey Jade.
[00:00:36] Jade Pett: Hello.
[00:00:38] Joyann Boyce: And we decided to hop on a podcast today because International Women's Day has just happened, and Jade messaged me the day before like, Hey, we haven't got any content planned, and I don't know why
[00:00:51] but I just said I'm on strike, we're not putting out any content related specifically to International Day. I forgot I had a scheduled post actually, but no intentional rushed content and I said that I was on strike jokingly at first, and then I started to think like, why is this day becoming a day of more work for women?
[00:01:21] Also in addition, unpaid work. And the day started with my favourite bot, the gender, the pay gap bot, doing its usual rounds. If you haven't heard of this bot, it's created in the UK and it's a bot that takes the pay gap data, which any company with over 250 employees in the UK needs to report to the government.
[00:01:48] This is the second year of reporting it. So the bot essentially searches for a tweet that has International Women's Day or anything mentioned in women searches, the government database, and talks about what their gender pay gap is. Um, Jade, have you seen any of this year's tweets from the bot?
[00:02:08] Jade Pett: I've seen a couple, but all of them have been boring. They've all been equal.
[00:02:14] Joyann Boyce: And that's the other thing. I saw the equal ones and I was just like, This is great. This is, you know, what we want. But at the same time, my gut was still kind of, how did they get it equal, especially the ones that had a huge gap last year and all of a suddenly no gap. And I'm just, part of me is like, ooh, did they just fire all the women?
[00:02:39] Honestly, that, that was my first thought. My second thought was maybe they actually did the work. I think the ones I believe did the work were the ones that, what felt like a realistic progress where they had like the, the gap is smaller than the year before.
[00:02:54] Jade Pett: Yeah.
[00:02:55] Joyann Boyce: But firing all the women would also remove the gap. I'm just.
[00:02:59] Jade Pett: From one extreme to the next.
[00:03:02] Joyann Boyce: I just, yeah. I think that's why I decided to go on strike this year cause I've become very cynical to it and it made me think about these hashtag days in general and how they impact inclusion. I dunno if you recall, Jade, but like when you first joined, we were talking about hashtag days.
[00:03:19] We recommended it to our clients on a marketing sense, but then the caution I always give clients is like, make sure the hashtag day you're using is relevant to what you do.
[00:03:30] Jade Pett: Yeah.
[00:03:31] Joyann Boyce: We've seen some interesting ones where I think it was a food client and like, okay, yes, food hashtags and they wanted to use a cookie.
[00:03:39] And I'm just like, no, you don't make cookies. But yeah, the hashtag days, I dunno if it's because I'm in marketing that I've become this cynical to International Women's Day or if, because I do public speaking in the past, and this would be the day or the week that I'm booked the most.
[00:03:59] Jade Pett: Yeah.
[00:04:00] Joyann Boyce: In terms of public speaking, it's this week and normally Black History Month in the uk, which is October or like days where I'm just like, yay, I'm getting a lot of inquiries and bookings. But at the same time, you're doing it because a hashtag has reminded you. What were your feelings when I said to you that we're on strike this year? What did you think, Jade?
[00:04:24] Jade Pett: I mean, I was initially surprised because of the theme because it was so easy for us to slot into, but it. Like, I, I know your feelings to hashtag days, so it wasn't that surprising. I think it needs to feel authentic.
[00:04:39] Joyann Boyce: Mm-hmm. And for anyone who doesn't know, tell us a little bit about the theme for International Women's Day this year.
[00:04:45] Jade Pett: Well, this year is all about equity. I can't remember the full name of it, but equity is the main theme, um, apart from the UN for some reason, which has a, a whole different theme.
[00:04:56] Joyann Boyce: Why? What? The UN has a separate theme to the official day?
[00:05:02] Jade Pett: Yeah, their theme this year is digitALL. So getting more women into tech and stopping like online harassment of women. They do have some like good stats and stuff, but it's just, it's, it's interesting that they have their own thing going on.
[00:05:18] Joyann Boyce: In a way, I feel like that UN one feels a little bit more tangible, like.
[00:05:23] Jade Pett: Yeah, I agree.
[00:05:25] Joyann Boyce: Getting women into tech. Here is an initiative. Here is some women in tech equity as a theme. All the themes, as themes, I get it, but they're just so big and the marketing around it doesn't always align with the theme.
[00:05:47] Jade Pett: Yeah. Yes. I was thinking that.
[00:05:50] Joyann Boyce: Is the, I get. And then the other thing that's happened over recent years is people are saying, happy International Women's Day at like, it's like Merry Christmas, happy birthday.
[00:06:05] And it's getting embedded into the culture. Oh yeah, this is the day we celebrate. Celebrate what?
[00:06:15] Jade Pett: Yeah, that is interesting. I think it's kind of taken away the original point of the day, the original aim of the day to like spread awareness. Whereas now it's just something that we kind of celebrate. Almost like the, the point is to spread awareness of problematic issues. Not to, I mean, celebrating accomplishments is always great, but I think there needs to be like a bit of a split between the two, balance.
[00:06:39] Joyann Boyce: And I think this is where I feel we probably contribute to the problem in being marketers because part of that narrative shaping is the marketing. Like I've seen different campaigns go out this year. The only one that I saw that was close-ish to the theme was I believe, uh, what is that bank where widow, something they have, their mascot used to be a widow
[00:07:06] It was really, I describe things in the most terrible ways. Scottish. Oh, it slipped my mind. But anyhow, I can see the visuals in my mind. Um, the mascot for this bank, or this insurance thing is a woman with a cape, and inside the cape is red, but outside the cape is black. And they were talking about the gap, the pension gap, and how.
[00:07:36] They were actually using it to advertise their pension plans, I'm assuming, which, okay. At, at the end of the day, marketing is sales. Um, but they were providing data about how there's no equity and equality in pensions and savings, and I was like, ooh, this, this nice. This makes sense. This fits the theme.
[00:07:57] This, this is like, hey, let's, you know, figure out this problem, highlight it, find some solutions, even though it's a short campaign and then you're gonna run it for a short period of time or so forth. But I feel like marketers are part of the problem in it becoming a bit blah.
[00:08:17] Jade Pett: Yeah.
[00:08:19] Joyann Boyce: I have the opportunity to make it like, I don't know what else to do.
[00:08:23] Cuz it's not a matter, I'm not saying to remove the day. Cuz again, we know for a lot of our clients, that's when they start thinking about things. They're like, oh yes, let's, let's start thinking about representation in our marketing content on this day and not the whole year round, which is a whole other problem itself.
[00:08:43] But I don't know. What do you think? Actually, I, you. Congratulations, by the way, one year in the marketing world and one year at Arima.
[00:08:52] Jade Pett: Thank you.
[00:08:53] Joyann Boyce: Um, but I guess you were here when it's become a day. What do you think from what you've seen while being in the marketing sector that you've seen any companies celebrate this day in a way that fit the theme or is tangible or.
[00:09:15] what's been your feelings of it? Cause I might be jaded having seen five years worth of it.
[00:09:21] Jade Pett: Yeah. No, I haven't particularly, a lot of what I've seen has been, it's, it's been like a post, it's been a, a picture of like some women smiling and it's just been like a quick post. I think the really great thing about the one that you highlighted is it makes sense and there's like, thought behind it and it's something that they can tangibly.
[00:09:42] Whereas, I've not seen anything like that. Everything I've seen has felt kind of throw away and it's not even that, it doesn't make sense. Like I've seen, like I follow like makeup brands and like there's so much opportunity for them to do something there and they just don't take the opportunity. It feels like they just go for what's easy to do.
[00:09:59] Just be like Happy National Women's Day rather than actually taking the time to make a full-on post that could contribute to something more.
[00:10:08] Joyann Boyce: That could shift the narrative. Have you seen the discounts?
[00:10:13] Jade Pett: No.
[00:10:15] Joyann Boyce: There's International Women's Day discounts. Some co, some, sorry. I've got a couple of emails where they're like, as part of International Women's Day, here's a discount to our thing.
[00:10:27] Jade Pett: Wow. No, I think my inbox is full of like probably still Valentine's Day and Mother's Day. I don't think I've seen anything like that.
[00:10:37] Joyann Boyce: I might just be on the wrong side of the internet. It's probably what's, what's making me so jaded to all of it. Um, so a couple weeks ago I spoke about the spotlight, saturation normalisation.
[00:10:52] Jade Pett: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:53] Joyann Boyce: And I feel like what's happening now with International Women's Day and International Women's History Month is where that saturation phase.
[00:11:02] Jade Pett: Yeah.
[00:11:03] Joyann Boyce: Where it's everywhere. No matter, there's no context. There's no, no depth to it. It is everywhere. And based on my theory, this is what is required for it to then become normal.
[00:11:18] But I don't know if this day should be something that is normal. If we wanna get equity for women.
[00:11:31] Jade Pett: Yeah. No. Cause that kind of defeats the point, right? It feels like it's, it's just like taken into stride. Yeah, I've, I've thought all about that a lot actually as well. The spotlight, normalisation stage with, in regards to Women's Day in particular.
[00:11:45] Cause I feel like it, it almost needs go back to spotlight. We like need to have purpose behind, and I think like society at large, we need it to be spotlighted still. But I think within marketing it's, it's lost it's way.
[00:11:58] Joyann Boyce: Marketing saturated it in such a way. But so the other thing I've been thinking about with it as well was I've seen that whole journey where June and Pride month go from spotlight saturation to now it's extremely normalized and people changing their logos to the pride flag. Probably don't even know why I have any initiative.
[00:12:22] There's no, there's a complete disconnect. They're like, Ooh, pride flag. Then the 1st of July, take it down. It's like, okay. Why? Um, there are aspects of that that have been somewhat beneficial for the LGBTQIA community in regards to the companies that are intentionally, you know, backing and donating money.
[00:12:44] But in the same time, it makes everyone in the community just feel like, Not part of it. And I'm like, okay, if this is the journey that International Women's Day is taking, I don't, I really don't want it to get to normalisation. I think what you said is right, needs to go back to spotlight.
[00:13:04] Jade Pett: Yeah. It's hard. Cause I do think there's, and there's a lot of people that, that really do care about this and really care about this day. I mean, you know, globally women take up 50% of the population. But yeah, it's, it's, it feels like it's on a fine line.
[00:13:20] Joyann Boyce: And it's such a weird thing cuz we're talking about a big world issue, but it is very much still related to marketing cuz whatever these companies do, it's the marketing team and the marketers that have to portray in a way that feels authentic and doesn't make that consumers feel the way we're feeling right now.
[00:13:40] Or certainly me. And it's funny, I'm not, this is by no means saying that there's a solution to this. I fully stated I'm having a full vent. Um, but I think it's something to think about in terms of let's take it back to spotlight. Let's stick on the meaning. And only if a marketing manager or someone in your team's like, hey, we need to post.
[00:14:08] So, only post it if there's like, okay, so what value are we linking this to? What initiative are we linking this to? Why are we posting this content rather than Happy International Women's Day?
[00:14:19] Jade Pett: Yeah, yeah. Especially if you could like link it back to the theme that would be like, it makes sense. Why would you not?
[00:14:26] But I feel like I haven't seen much linking back to the theme. Only when I'm kind of working have I found that.
[00:14:35] Joyann Boyce: The other thing that I've seen, is, uh, one of my friends on the internet and in real life, um, Candi posted about, you know, one of the things brands need to start moving towards is not using the word female.
[00:14:53] Jade Pett: Yep.
[00:14:54] Joyann Boyce: And this is like, 80% of my brain doesn't understand why people are still using female in relation to things.
[00:15:03] Jade Pett: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:03] Joyann Boyce: Because, thinking around that language, if you're going to say female, say male, but they're normally saying female and men.
[00:15:12] Jade Pett: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[00:15:15] Joyann Boyce: And I'm like if, well, if you're saying men say women.
[00:15:18] Jade Pett: Yeah. It's otherising.
[00:15:20] Joyann Boyce: And it's just not the correct for who, whom you're referring to either. Cause female is the medical term. Um, but then the 20% of my, it goes back to the difficult, not difficulty. One of the challenges of inclusive language is some of the uninclusive things have become so normalised and so easy to say, and you know, there's a balancing act of do you leave it alone?
[00:15:52] Because we have to wait for another generation to just come out of it. Like, like I mentioned before about influencers saying, hey, are we gonna get all the influencers to stop saying, hey guys, because they're essentially training the next generation to say that and use the word guys when referring to everyone.
[00:16:12] Um, and I think in regards to using the word female when referring to women, and it might be because I'm in a tech sector, I'm about to blame them. I think the tech sectors to blame because they're constantly saying female founders.
[00:16:28] Jade Pett: Yeah, I was thinking about this just the other day. Um, in relation to influencers, I mean, already there's so much difference in language, but like there's gamers and then there's female gamers.
[00:16:40] They're not just gamers. There needs, for some reason, they feel the need to add that distinction.
[00:16:45] Joyann Boyce: But why, why not women gamers? Yeah. Why, why? Like, why did we skip the word.
[00:16:56] Jade Pett: I, I don't know. I don't know.
[00:17:00] Joyann Boyce: I just don't, there's no things. But yeah. The, the, the female founder bit for me has been a thing of I can easily find a replacement. Women-led, women-founded.
[00:17:12] Jade Pett: Mm-hmm. It sounds better as well.
[00:17:14] Joyann Boyce: Women founders like it, do they just like words that have F?
[00:17:24] Even in a sentence. So if we take it, unless away from people speaking, typing in a sentence, women, the top 10 women-founded businesses, it still works. Top 10 female founders. Uh, you might have a word less, but.
[00:17:39] Jade Pett: I think women sounds more professional as well. Like we're women.
[00:17:45] Joyann Boyce: I think that might be it. There's an undertone. You might have hit. There's an undertone of, even though celebrating women, using the word female emphasises the not readiness. Cause if the comparison is, oh, you are a female founder and that's a man founder and not a male founder, it's like a man is adult and man is mature. Female founders, oh, you know, you know this. Hmm.
[00:18:13] Jade Pett: Yeah.
[00:18:13] Joyann Boyce: Yeah. Cause yeah, women as adult.
[00:18:18] Jade Pett: Cause it links back to that whole like, young woman, young lady, girls, like calling women girls. Um, it's very similar to that whole debate.
[00:18:28] Joyann Boyce: You, you mentioned so many things. My brain is, I think it is what girls is to women is what Female is to women in reference of business.
[00:18:42] Jade Pett: It feels like it. Yeah. I don't think that's, that's a far link to make.
[00:18:49] Joyann Boyce: It's not a far leap. And the other aspect of it as well, in regards to using females in reference to women, it's not a gender thing. I have definitely seen women, public speaking marketers, uh, writing articles. It's somehow become somewhat normalised, I would admit.
[00:19:11] There's articles that switch in between the two. But that even still as a, having a copy guideline when you pick one stick with one.
[00:19:21] Jade Pett: Yeah.
[00:19:22] Joyann Boyce: The girl-to-female-to-woman pipeline.
[00:19:26] Jade Pett: Yeah. I've been like been researching inclusive language. That's one of the things that I've been like hyper-aware of now. Like I cannot unsee that and I'm so like, cause I did my own little women's post and I was like steadfast, it had to be women rather than female. Cause I've seen all these like female posts flying around and I was like, absolutely not.
[00:19:52] Joyann Boyce: Gosh, I don't know if I'll be on strike next year, but do you know what the theme is for next year? I didn't look it up.
[00:19:59] Jade Pett: No. How far ahead did they announce it?
[00:20:03] Joyann Boyce: Like how many themes do they have? I, there's equity, equality, there's, how many ease can we go down? Let me see. International Women's Day 2024. It's falling on a Monday. They, there's definitely okay plans. The thing is, I am being extremely cynical cause I, I get why it was created and I do think it's still needed.
[00:20:31] I just feel marketers are, and I know as a marketer, literally hypocritical. Whatever's next. The next theme is I really hope that to any of the marketers listening, um, let us know your thoughts. But I really hope whatever the next theme is, link it. Find a way to make the theme, the centre and the core of the content, not just today. Yeah, I think that, I think that's, that's my overall argument.
[00:21:06] And it's literally called a theme. And that's what we use in our marketing terms of like, you know, this is the theme of the content. Make the theme of whatever you're creating for International Women's Day, International History Month, women's History Month. Make that the core of the content, the core of the story, rather than simply Happy International Women's Day.
[00:21:24] Don't post just to post, post with purpose.
[00:21:28] Jade Pett: Ooh.
[00:21:30] Joyann Boyce: I said it. I was like, Ooh, that. Yeah, post with purpose. But yes, that was a mini-rant. And I say I was on strike. I still did work on that on Wednesday. But I think the other aspect I saw, uh, I can't remember where it was, but might have been TikTok, where women did actually go on strike for two days in one in a country and
[00:21:57] it led to a bunch of changes in their law. I need to find out what country that is. Um, so maybe that might be a theme for future.
[00:22:07] Jade Pett: Maybe.
[00:22:08] Joyann Boyce: Maybe. And I'm not saying women going on strike and you companies can't pay them. You still pay them. Everyone still pays them. Everyone who would've booked me to speak still pay me to speak.
[00:22:18] I just don't turn up
[00:22:23] Yeah, that would be working towards equity.
[00:22:28] Jade Pett: Yeah, I like that.
[00:22:31] Joyann Boyce: It's a goal. It's the plan. Um, if anyone runs with this idea, credit me and let me know if I can take the day off as well. Oh gosh. Well, thank you so much for tuning in to the Marketing Made Inclusive Podcast. Let us know your thoughts on International Women's Day.
[00:22:46] Um, it's past, it's gonna come around next year, but we really want to hear your thoughts on has marketing ruined this day, and how, what can we do with marketers to really dig back into the theme? Thank you for listening.
