Welcome and welcome back to the Marketing Made Inclusive podcast. I am your host Joyann Boyce. Thank you so much for joining me. And we have this week and another amazing guest. We have Crystal J Carter. Now, I've known Crystal for a while and I've just to J in Your name is new, isn't it?

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Crystal Carter

Dude, I only put the J in there so people can find

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Crystal Carter

me on LinkedIn. Like there's lots of other people called Crystal Carter on LinkedIn and like, it just made it easier for people to find me. That's all. That's. That's why I put it in there.

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Joyann Boyce

You know you rank higher than the actress Crystal Carter?

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Crystal Carter

Yes. Because that's deliberate like I deliberately set out to be the number one. Crystal Carter I also like I, so I just in case anyone's wondering. I did attend the Renaissance World tour and the Cardiff leg of the tour, Blue Ivy did not show up, nor did Megan Thee Stallion or Diana Ross. However, we had a good time anyway, when they played like everybody.

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Crystal Carter

Say, Hey, Mrs Carter it. I was like, they're talking to me. It's me. They're all talking to me.

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Crystal Carter

No, they're not talking about me.

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Joyann Boyce

But I was also there and funny, we were in the same stadium.

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Crystal Carter

You're in Cardiff? Oh my God, why do we not coordinate?

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Joyann Boyce

Yeah. I went to the Cardiff Beyonce.

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Joyann Boyce

Beyonce, it just it blindsides us, you know.

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Crystal Carter

I did. I wore these glasses, which are the same

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Crystal Carter

That she wears and Made Forever. I also had like a whole outfit I could send you. Like the whole thing. Like it was like. It was like a whole thing.

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Crystal Carter

For, like, listening to go to the YouTube to see the glasses.

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Crystal Carter

The glasses. are perfect. Like, honestly, like I showed everybody a picture. I was like, Look at Beyonce. Look at me, Look at Beyonce. They look at me and they're like, Oh my God, you nailed it. This is this is yeah. Basically when, when, when I when I walked to my seat, people clapped. That's how good my outfit was.

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Crystal Carter

Like, I'm not lying.

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Crystal Carter

Put that on your podcast.

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Crystal Carter

No I’m kidding.

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Joyann Boyce

Other than an amazing Beyonce outfit.

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Joyann Boyce

Crystal's also, also, is the head of SEO communions. Communions? Wow.

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Joyann Boyce

the head of SEO communications at Wix. My, one of the website platforms that I have used.

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Crystal Carter

Indeed, indeed. that is precisely.

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Crystal Carter

Sometimes like living in England. I say I work at Wix and people are like, oh, my kitchen. And I'm like, nope, I know nothing about DIY, not that Wicks, W I X Wix. That is what we do. And yeah, I slay all day.

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Crystal Carter

But it's a little bit.

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Joyann Boyce

I feel guilty because all our websites are built on Squarespace.

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Crystal Carter

But yeah.

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Crystal Carter

You know, I guess you can be forgiving. Like my the way I say it is, you know, like we, we offer some great, some great, great, great resources for, for folks to get started on SEO. We have, we offer

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Crystal Carter

Some great really easily accessible design resources so you know choose what's.

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Crystal Carter

Best for you. It's probably Wix, but like, you know, choose what's best for you.

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Joyann Boyce

What's best for you is probably Wix, but.

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Crystal Carter

Probably. But, but you know. Yeah, exactly. You know, like, people make that choice.

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Joyann Boyce

So I was also doing a deep dive and you've been in the marketing sector for a minute.

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Crystal Carter

Yeah. Yeah, pretty

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Crystal Carter

Much. I've been doing marketing pretty much the whole time with a little,

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Crystal Carter

A little dabbling in catering. My first job was at a pizza place. I can still cut a circle.

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Crystal Carter

A circular.

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Crystal Carter

Thing, like a cake or a pizza or something into ten, very even slices, which is a skill that that, you know.

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Crystal Carter

I'm pretty proud of.

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Joyann Boyce

Served you well over the years I’m guessing.

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Crystal Carter

Yeah. I mean.

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Crystal Carter

Ten, ten is actually tricky.

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Crystal Carter

There's a knack to it, but you have to you have to get it to practice. And yeah.

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Crystal Carter

I mean, eight’s easy.

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Crystal Carter

Ten, ten is tricky, but there you go.

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Joyann Boyce

Yeah, I guess I'll have to see it in practice to know.

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Crystal Carter

Okay. Yeah. Okay.

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Joyann Boyce

Tell us a little bit about your I calculated 18 plus years in marketing.

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Crystal Carter

Why are you telling everybody my business out here?

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Joyann Boyce

I was just impressed. I was like, literally everyone's like a decade or they're beyond you in the middle. You're not at the point yet was decades. You know, you coming up.

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Crystal Carter

Okay, so. So, I've so worked in marketing the whole time. I've done you know, some of that was, some of that was like some intern kind of stuff like getting started, things like that.

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Crystal Carter

basically I was working with the, with a local authority doing like promoting permitting loads of the parks online and the events that they have in the parks and coordinating events in parks and working with lots of partners who are also coordinating events in parks.

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Crystal Carter

And so that was really great.

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Crystal Carter

That was way back in the day, if we're really going to throw it back.

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Crystal Carter

That was back in the day when people were having meetings about like, oh, I don't know if people should be allowed to go, to go, to be on Facebook at work and what is this Facebook? And we needed a strategy. And, you know, I was and, and I was.

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Crystal Carter

Sort of in the vanguard of that particular team of being like, no, social media is actually useful. Like we should use this to connect

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Crystal Carter

with people and things like that. And also, and, and, you know, during that time, I was I was doing a lot of, of SEO, but I didn't know. So, I was doing like listings for instance, for all of the different events and new content distribution, making sure that all of those things were there. I was updating the websites for that.

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Crystal Carter

You know, we had over

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Crystal Carter

100 web pages and I had to migrate all of them and change them all. When we switched over all of our all of our Web pages.

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Crystal Carter

And I didn't know that that was an SEO task, but I was doing that. I think a lot of people say things like, oh, I'm not a real SEO, and I'm like, What do you do? And they're like, oh, I just look after this like giant enterprise website that has like 400 blogs and I manage all of those blogs, but I don't know anything about SEO.

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Crystal Carter

And I'm like, What are you talking about?

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Crystal Carter

What are you talking about? Of course.

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Joyann Boyce

I’m a aversion of that person, I think, right? I say to you all the times I know nothing.

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Crystal Carter

And then then I ask you something and you're like, oh yeah, it's like this and this and this. I'm like mhmm.

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Joyann Boyce

It's because I started in social. I stumbled into marketing similar. You stumble into it and you don’t feel that you have the solid foundation that people who formerly learned it.

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Crystal Carter

Right. But here's the thing. This is the thing I always say I like in digital, all experience is valid, right? So I worked in that event space, but when I was working with the agency, I remember having a client who was working in event spaces and I was like, oh, hey, I know how to put up a marquee. I had to do that for, for a job that I had before, and they was like, great, I sell marquees.

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Crystal Carter

So that means you actually know what I'm talking about. So, you know, like all of the health and safety things that are required and all of that blah, blah, blah that's required and all of that sort of stuff. When you're when you're in digital and you see this all the time, if you following a social media folks. And so Luke Carthy is an eCommerce dude.

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Crystal Carter

And he writes for the Wix SEO Hub, he was on our, he was on our board and he is like, he's like that guy for ecommerce. And he will constantly be like, oh, I was on this website and their navigation is janky or I was on this website and they're doing something really, really good.

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Crystal Carter

And I'm sure you must find this when you're like going around online, like, look at this campaign. They are crushing it or look at this campaign. What are they doing? And so.

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Crystal Carter

You I think you find that like while you're going around living your life, you like I always say like, you know, like.

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Crystal Carter

The other thing I say is like stay woke, like with like with a lowercase w, like basically like pay attention to.

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Crystal Carter

What you're seeing in spaces and what you're seeing people respond to. If you're seeing that your mom.

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Crystal Carter

Is sharing a particular meme or is.

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Crystal Carter

Interested in a particular campaign like that's interesting. Like particularly if it's somebody who's not super digital savvy, but that trickled down to them. How, how is it that they found that information? How, how is it that they're that they're getting that that stuff, you know, pay attention to, to why that's happening because it's highly likely that that will be useful for you in your like more formal activity.

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Crystal Carter

I think it's really easy for folks to have imposter syndrome with, with digital stuff.

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Crystal Carter

Because people will say

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Crystal Carter

This is best practice.

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Crystal Carter

This is the way that you have to do it. Yeah, but then you'll see somebody else who's doing not that and they're

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Crystal Carter

crushing it, but you can see that they're getting like all the likes, all of

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Crystal Carter

the, the views, all of the rankings, all of that stuff. And you're like, But they're

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Crystal Carter

not doing that thing

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Crystal Carter

that was the best practice. So sometimes it's both a science and an art and it can feel like, oh, you know, I'm not sure, but like if you're getting the results at the end of the day, and this is the thing that I've always loved about digital marketing, and it's one of the one of the reasons why I firmly set up my camp.

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Crystal Carter

Here in my career.

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Crystal Carter

Is that at the end of the day, the results really matter. So, so sometimes with, with general, with general marketing, with campaigns, people will say, oh, I feel like I like.

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Crystal Carter

This advert or.

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Crystal Carter

Oh, I feel like I like this, this PR campaign or I like that thing or I don't like this and I feel this about it. But the thing about digital marketing is that is like we have statistics.

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Crystal Carter

So, so that's.

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Joyann Boyce

We have stats. Number.

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Crystal Carter

We have stats. Okay. So.

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Crystal Carter

glad that you have good.

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Crystal Carter

Feelings about whatever that.

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Crystal Carter

Was, but I have stats that say that Google liked it. So even if you didn't like it.

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Crystal Carter

Google liked it. And that's who I was going for. Like because Google.

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Crystal Carter

Sending traffic, they said sending actual people to it. And those actual people clicked on the thing.

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Crystal Carter

that you said you maybe didn't like. And so, so or you can say, hey, let's test it, let's AB test it. So you like this? I think it should be a blue. You think it should be in yellow? Let's test it. We will see what is, what is and what isn't. And if it turns out that blue is that blue is. Right, great.

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Crystal Carter

Then we know that. And we know that that's what the customers like. So you can test all of that stuff and it's like it's a lot more I think I think from an inclusive point of view, I think it's really valuable because you have some of those, you have some of those like data backed.

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Crystal Carter

Things to, to, to sort of drive through some of those conversations about inclusivity, to, to, to incorporate different ideas into, into your campaigns, to incorporate folks who are doing great work into your campaign. If there's somebody who you know, I've had I've had this before where I've been in a, a situation where, where maybe.

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Crystal Carter

I was like the only person in the room or whatever. I'm for multiple I mean, for multiple identity points. And, you know, at the end of the day, they looked at my stats and they were like, cool, what do you have to say? And I'm like, great. Like, because that that's.

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Crystal Carter

That was the thing that, that mattered in that in that situation most was the stats. So, you.

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Crystal Carter

Can you can lead with that you can be it's right you can be like so I like ranked this this and this we, we.

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Crystal Carter

Lowered your PPC by 50% like the PPC costs by 50% and increased your.

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Crystal Carter

Your conversions by, by 100%. So.

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Joyann Boyce

You started

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Joyann Boyce

a little bit on my next question, because I'm curious to know what does inclusive marketing look like in the SEO space? Because there's a lot of times where, you know, people just talk about inclusive marketing in terms of visual representation, but SEO from me outside looking in is so much about the stats and the, you know, the numbers and the words.

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Joyann Boyce

How does that become or look or what is the conversation of inclusion happening there?

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Crystal Carter

So, I think that so I think that there's, there's a few things. So, there's accessibility, web accessibility, which is, you know, there's, there's very clear guidelines on that. So, at Wix, we have an accessibility tool and accessibility wizard that will help you if you're building your website and you can use it and it will say, you need to fix this, you need to fix that, you need to do this, you need to do that.

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Crystal Carter

One of the things it has to do, one of the things that's important about accessibility for SEO is that there's a lot of overlap between accessibility and SEO. So, when we talk about accessibility in SEO, a lot of times it's, it's to do with making sure that people can read, can read content in lots of different formats depending on their very often physical needs.

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Crystal Carter

So it might be that somebody has like a visual impairment and maybe they use a screen reader, or it might be that someone has like a small visual impairment.

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Crystal Carter

Like I have a small visual impairment.

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Crystal Carter

I should be wearing glasses right now and I'm not so, so it might be if someone has a small visual impairment. And so, you need to make sure that you have like high contrast.

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Crystal Carter

So, like, you know, you don't want like dark blue on a navy blue, like, like a dark blue text on like a, like a royal blue background, like it's not enough contrast.

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Crystal Carter

People can't read it. And so that that is, that is good. That's good practice in terms of accessibility for people who have sort of visibility challenges.

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Crystal Carter

But it also is good practice because like most people can't read that even if you had good even if you had perfect 20, 20 eyesight, you'd go and you go, What is that? Why am I having to work so hard to read this content?

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Crystal Carter

And then you’d leave is the thing.

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Joyann Boyce

And then your bounce rate goes up and then. Yeah.

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Crystal Carter

Right, exactly. And then Google, Google's getting signals that like, oh.

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Crystal Carter

People don't like this website, so maybe we shouldn't

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Crystal Carter

rank it so high. And so, these are, these are things that, that factor into it. And similarly, there's a lot of HTML tags that you can write in. So, there's like there's syntax that you can write and into your, into your HTML that that gives context to things that you're doing. So, if you're if you have an image, you can write a caption.

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Crystal Carter

If you have if you have a link, you can write, you know, different parts of the different attributes to the to the link to tell people what it is. It also tells bots

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Crystal Carter

What, what that link is about. It also tells bots what that what that image is about. So that provides both SEO benefits because the bots are users as well.

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Joyann Boyce

Is there a difference between the way you'd write for a bot to understand versus a person using a screen reader?

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Crystal Carter

Kind of, kind of. So, it might be

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Crystal Carter

sometimes you can just say that, you know, there's something decorative so maybe you wouldn't write in as an all text and then for, for, for someone reading a screen reader it might be the case that you might, you might shape all of your things so that they're more narrative, so that it works more with the narrative of the of the page.

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Crystal Carter

So, for instance, if you had a blog that was all about a certain topic, you might make sure that it flows. So, our, the Wix SEO learning hub has, we have loads of blogs on there. Our editor, head of editorial George when he spends a lot of time on the captions for the images so that and the captions they're not they're not just.

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Crystal Carter

Like this is a chart that's, the captions are like this chart shows how the Google search.

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Crystal Carter

Algorithm does this, this and this. Like he, he spends a lot of time writing, writing out those, those, those images.

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Joyann Boyce

So, he's not, he's explaining what the chart is. He's not saying like this is a blue bar and a thing background. He's giving context.

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Crystal Carter

Yeah he's he like writes full. full sentences about, about the things. So, so you can, you can do that to, you can, you can do that in different ways. And again, it's something that you can test as well. So, there's, there's lots of different elements that you can add in, add into your, into your, your SEO and your accessibility stuff, for instance.

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Crystal Carter

So that's something that's really important. And the other thing that the other thing from, from an SEO point of view is audience, right? So, so when you're, if you're, if you're thinking about inclusivity and you're in your marketing and you're thinking about growth.

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Crystal Carter

If you're talking to, to the mainstream, for instance.

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Crystal Carter

If you're talking to, I don't know the status quo, for instance, then then then you are going to get a certain, a certain level of traffic if you want to, to create a better, better user experience. Very often you need to get a bit more granular. So, for instance, if I had an ice cream parlour and I had a website that was that had ice cream, I might want to include some gluten free ice cream, some vegan ice cream, some sugar free ice cream, I might want to include that.

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Crystal Carter

Those, those sorts of things, for instance. And those are and that is getting more granular, but it's also getting more specific. So, so there's going to be people who are searching for that and you'll find different cues for that. So, when you're when you're doing your, your keyword research, when you're doing your SEO research, so you'll find, you'll find that people, you can see whether or not people are looking for those types of ice cream, for instance, those kinds of filters or those kinds of variations.

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Crystal Carter

You will also find like organic ice cream, might another one for instance. I don't I don't know if that if that's the thing. It probably. But you would also.

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Crystal Carter

I guess organic cows.

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Crystal Carter

Yeah, potentially, Yeah. Organic milk.

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Crystal Carter

Yeah. Yeah.

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Crystal Carter

And like fair trade, like there's yeah, there's different variations.

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Crystal Carter

Okay, so let's get into that. So, the so you would look generally at the sort of search landscape and you can see in Google Trends, for instance, you can see whether or not vegan ice cream is trending, for instance, or dairy free ice cream is trending, for instance. And obviously this.

00:16:52:00 - 00:16:57:08

Crystal Carter

Is a pretty vanilla category. You're going to have a very sad vanilla, anyway.

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Crystal Carter

But, but you can also look in your in your own search section. So, if you have a search section on your website and you're finding that, people are looking for like people that, people are putting in queries for a vegan ice cream and they're not getting a result, then, then you can either create a dedicated page, you can also recommend products, products for the team.

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Crystal Carter

You can say, Hey, maybe we should have a specific thing that that caters for this need. And, and then you're, you're being more inclusive of those folks because you're using your search data. Again, data, data is your friend here. So it might be that that you know, I've seen I've seen, for instance, like counsellors, like websites work for counsellors.

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Crystal Carter

And people are looking specifically for counsellors for, for, for people from like Black backgrounds. So, they're like, I'm looking for a counsellor, I'm a Black person. I'm looking

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Crystal Carter

for a black counsellor, for

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Crystal Carter

instance. Like that’s something that people sometimes do or people are looking for a counsellor that specialize as in autism, or they're looking for a counsellor that specializes in something else, or they're looking for a counsellor that, you know, that meets meet certain needs that they, that they have. And if you're finding that people are searching for that, then you can create dedicated content for that.

00:18:05:03 - 00:18:28:02

Crystal Carter

And that will give you an SEO benefit as well as satisfying that customer need. So, I think essentially what people forget about Google is that Google is, is not just setting people to websites for the sake of it. Google is and SEO is about delivering customer value. So, it's about it's about illustrating the value to, to the customer.

00:18:28:02 - 00:18:50:18

Crystal Carter

So, Google is getting signals from users who go to your website that that content is valuable. So, the more signals that you give them, the better. And if you and if across your domain, you're including lots of signals that you have, that you're, you're not only appealing to the top-level queries. So, for instance, like Google has had terms.

00:18:50:20 - 00:18:54:17

Crystal Carter

So, if you add in something like ice cream, for instance, they will filter.

00:18:54:17 - 00:19:02:02

Crystal Carter

You, They'll be like, you want an ice cream parlour? Do you want ice cream? You want an ice cream maker? Do you want like

00:19:02:04 - 00:19:06:09

Crystal Carter

ice cream recipes? Like what? They'll filter you because ice cream. If you just put an ice cream.

00:19:06:09 - 00:19:11:10

Crystal Carter

In Google, it's too broad. What is that like? Like sort yourself out there trying to help you.

00:19:11:12 - 00:19:27:07

Crystal Carter

So, if they find that you're just appealing to a broad thing and you're don't know who your audience is and they don't know who to send to you, right? They don't know who's going to value your content. Whereas if you're getting more granular and you're appealing to a specific audience, which should include a broad scope of humanity.

00:19:32:04 - 00:19:49:13

Joyann Boyce

It’s making me think about. Taking it from the ice cream to some other areas like clothing. I can imagine this is how a lot of stores determine where they should have a tool brand or not. So, Crystal and I were talking, we've not met in person ever, but I'm six foot three. And a lot of the time when I search for something, I go straight to the tall category.

00:19:49:13 - 00:20:00:02

Joyann Boyce

Or I type in tool x like tall jean, tall. And so, if you know that your audience is searching for that, you're kind of like matching their ones.

00:20:00:04 - 00:20:12:01

Crystal Carter

Right. Right. And so, so and from a from an SEO point of view, that's brilliant because if you type in tall jeans and next it shows at the top of the search index, it's like, yes, we have tall jeans that we

00:20:12:01 - 00:20:19:02

Crystal Carter

knew you were coming. We are ready for you. We appreciate you. We like, like we have a whole, whole page that has.

00:20:19:02 - 00:20:21:02

Crystal Carter

Tall jeans and you get to that page and they're like,

00:20:21:04 - 00:20:29:18

Crystal Carter

Hey there tall lady. We have tall jeans for you and they're, they're fantastic. Pick anything you like, whatever you want, and you're like, Great. And then they are then.

00:20:29:18 - 00:20:31:03

Crystal Carter

Then you get the other thing as

00:20:31:03 - 00:20:35:14

Crystal Carter

well, which is where like you go and you're like, okay, great, and you get there and they’re not tall jeans.

00:20:37:06 - 00:20:43:21

Joyann Boyce

They are not tall. They’re like five, seven and have a 33 inch inseam. This is, this is a very close and dear problem to my heart.

00:20:44:01 - 00:20:45:08

Crystal Carter

Right, right, right.

00:20:45:08 - 00:20:46:04

Crystal Carter

And I think that people.

00:20:46:04 - 00:20:55:03

Crystal Carter

Forget about this. I think when people think about accessibility and inclusivity online and stuff, I think people forget about like there's lots of times like everybody's

00:20:55:03 - 00:21:00:03

Crystal Carter

got like something where they're like, they never it's not for me because

00:21:00:03 - 00:21:02:22

Crystal Carter

you know, lots of things are manufactured or so. So, I think like, remember,

00:21:02:23 - 00:21:06:17

Crystal Carter

remember those things like, remember like, remember when you have that feeling.

00:21:06:19 - 00:21:34:07

Joyann Boyce

It makes me think of because Pinterest has rolled out their kind of search where you can search Pinterest based on hair texture, skin tone and body. And it just makes me think of like, that's a level of inclusivity, but it makes it easier for the user. So, it's like two, it's so fascinating. The question I had because you mentioned it, would you recommend for people to have search on their website just as like a search bar.

00:21:34:09 - 00:21:34:20

Crystal Carter

If you're.

00:21:34:22 - 00:21:36:17

Joyann Boyce

Because that’s something I always see.

00:21:36:19 - 00:21:41:10

Crystal Carter

Yeah. So, I think it depends on the amount of content that you have. If you have 12 pages on your website, like you probably.

00:21:41:10 - 00:21:44:16

Crystal Carter

Don't need to do that. Like people can navigate across your site or whatever.

00:21:44:16 - 00:22:07:21

Crystal Carter

That's probably fine. However, if you have, if you have lots of content, if you've got lots of products, for instance, and I mean we had this, we had this on our, as we were putting together the SEO hub, like when we had like 40 pages or whatever, like you can kind of scroll through those or whatever. But pretty much once you hit like over 50 products or something like that, and maybe even earlier, like you're definitely need a search thing because like aint nobody got time.

00:22:08:21 - 00:22:09:05

Crystal Carter

00:22:09:05 - 00:22:14:22

Crystal Carter

browse every single thing too closely. Brown So like, it's very important to like.

00:22:14:24 - 00:22:34:09

Crystal Carter

To just be mindful of your users because again, again, Google is measuring value. So, SEO is all about like delivering, like illustrating value, giving value to, to, to customers. And Google will rank you based on how valuable your, your content is for, for users. They've recently talked about helpful content. Update like they keep talking about this helpful content update.

00:22:34:14 - 00:22:43:06

Crystal Carter

They just rolled out a spam update. They're trying to make sure that people are giving content that is useful and that's not wasting people's time. That's the other thing. Like people have.

00:22:43:06 - 00:22:45:17

Crystal Carter

So much to do, so many notifications, all of that sort of.

00:22:45:17 - 00:23:04:00

Crystal Carter

Stuff. If you actually got them to your website, make sure that you're making them the most of that, that time and, and you know they'll appreciate you for it. So, so yeah I think that having site search, having, the thing about having site search is that it gives you insights into what people want and expect from your brand.

00:23:04:00 - 00:23:22:24

Crystal Carter

So, you can see which queries people are putting into your sites, site search. And you can also see if you have search pages depending on how they're configured. Sometimes they can rank and, and you can see like if you're seeing, for instance, that like the tall jeans section is ranking as a search page.

00:23:23:01 - 00:23:23:22

Crystal Carter

You can go, cool.

00:23:24:02 - 00:23:43:16

Crystal Carter

We can now invest like some time in making a dedicated landing page, maybe doing some PPC, like maybe, you know, engaging with some like some influencers or something so that more people in this community know that, like, we have things for them. Like, you're welcome, Like you are welcome in our in our, in our space like and all of that sort of stuff.

00:23:43:18 - 00:23:47:18

Crystal Carter

And I think certainly in my in my experience of, you know.

00:23:47:20 - 00:23:50:20

Crystal Carter

Understanding like the various intersections of my.

00:23:50:23 - 00:23:55:21

Crystal Carter

My personality, what I what I find is that, is that it's useful.

00:23:55:21 - 00:24:02:09

Crystal Carter

To, to, to know that you're that you're welcome. Like literally just knowing that you're welcome that like somebody like you is.

00:24:02:09 - 00:24:12:23

Crystal Carter

Welcome in this space is, is important. So, you know like if it says on the website like hey are places wheelchair accessible like that and it just says on the website and you don't have to ask.

00:24:14:12 - 00:24:19:07

Crystal Carter

And you don't have to dig around to find that information that's really useful, you know?

00:24:20:02 - 00:24:38:00

Joyann Boyce

Is there? So, if you don't have search on your website, is there a way for a business to know what people are looking for? Because like with the I, when I speak to people from disabled community, I know they type in like wheelchair accessible buildings and I recommend to clients all the time to just put that somewhere on your website if it's true and factual, of course.

00:24:38:04 - 00:24:39:17

Crystal Carter

Yeah.

00:24:39:19 - 00:24:45:04

Joyann Boyce

But if you don't have search, how will you know that people are typing? Like how do you find information out?

00:24:45:06 - 00:25:09:05

Crystal Carter

Okay, so for local businesses, I highly recommend that you connect to Google Business profile. So, Google Business Profile has, has various attributes that they allow you to that you can that you can declare in your Google business profile. So, you can declare that we are wheelchair accessible. You can declare that you're Black-owned and you can declare that you're LGBTQ friendly, you can declare that your woman owned, you can declare like lots of different elements on there.

00:25:09:05 - 00:25:35:10

Crystal Carter

So just go through the your Google business profile and add those elements in. And also on Google business profile, people can ask questions on Google Business profile. So, so when they find your thing, they can say, are you wheelchair accessible, for instance? And you can answer those questions on Google. And then when people are searching for a wheelchair accessible at restaurant list, let's say you're having a you know, you're having a birthday party, you're inviting your crew and like either.

00:25:35:10 - 00:25:36:08

Crystal Carter

You or your crew or.

00:25:36:08 - 00:25:38:10

Crystal Carter

Somebody, you know, has a wheelchair.

00:25:38:12 - 00:25:43:00

Crystal Carter

So you're going to want to make sure that everybody feels welcome at your birthday party.

00:25:43:02 - 00:25:59:12

Crystal Carter

And so, let's say you go, you're doing that. You're going to look that up. And, and, and if it's in either the questions or it's declared in your in your Google business profile section, then it will be searchable. And Google can point people in the right direction, for instance. So that's a that's a really good one.

00:25:59:12 - 00:26:02:07

Crystal Carter

and the other thing is, is like you can also do a blog.

00:26:02:09 - 00:26:27:16

Crystal Carter

So for instance, if you were doing something, so if you had something that was like a dedicated service or something, things like let's say, let's say, let's see your restaurant or whatever it was, wasn't actually wheelchair accessible, but you had a dedicated service where it's like, hey, we don't have in the restaurant that we do on the patio or like, we could we can bring something out to you or like, you know, that sort of thing.

00:26:27:16 - 00:26:35:20

Crystal Carter

Like we're doing our best. Like this is what, this is what we had. And again, I think that sometimes with things like that, it's just too important to just declare what you are doing.

00:26:35:22 - 00:26:50:10

Crystal Carter

You can write a blog on it. It doesn't it doesn't necessarily, like it's nice to have it and have it on like on the home page if you can or like have it very clear. But you can also write a blog that that explains like you know how it works for folks or things like that. And you could include that in the blog.

00:26:50:10 - 00:27:04:23

Crystal Carter

And the blog will be searchable. And, and if somebody is looking for that again, Google can, can pull that through onto your Google business profile when people are searching on Google Maps. But it's also something that you can refer to people when, when they need it. So, so that's, that's, useful as well so.

00:27:04:23 - 00:27:23:10

Joyann Boyce

Really good piece of content for because in Bristol where I'm based, there's a lot of, and Bath, there's a lot of buildings that can't get converted and become accessible. And that's a really good blog for them to write, to say, this is the journey we've gone on, this is where you are, I think people shy away from they can't do the thing.

00:27:23:12 - 00:27:25:09

Joyann Boyce

That makes them inclusive.

00:27:25:14 - 00:27:26:10

Crystal Carter

Yeah, right.

00:27:26:10 - 00:27:34:08

Crystal Carter

Precisely. So, like, and another thing is for like moms like things for, like, for like, you know, whether you have like we have a changing room or we don't have a changing.

00:27:34:08 - 00:27:36:08

Crystal Carter

Room or like we have a thing.

00:27:36:08 - 00:27:48:22

Crystal Carter

Or that, that sort of thing. So, like changing room or like, or like a feeding room or something like that, if you have that sort of thing, then it's worth just like having it out somewhere. And again, if you, if, even if you have it on your Google Business Profile, that's something that again, people get, people can access.

00:27:48:24 - 00:27:51:09

Crystal Carter

So just make sure that it, that it’s somewhere. It doesn't

00:27:51:09 - 00:27:58:09

Crystal Carter

It doesn't have to be like you don't take out a billboard necessarily, but if it's on your website then it will be searchable.

00:27:58:11 - 00:28:19:12

Crystal Carter

When people when people need me that that sort of thing. And also, you know, you can say, you know, a nice one to be on the contact page, which just be like, hey, if you need if you need special assistance, you know, we welcome all guests of whatever. If you need special assistance, give us a shout like is, is again it’s, it's just acknowledging like we know, we know we see you, we care.

00:28:21:16 - 00:28:43:01

Crystal Carter

And just, just let us know. So, so I think that that's, that's another thing that people can do. But the other thing is within, within, and the other thing about creating a blog, a blog about that kind of content or some content on your web page about, about that sort of thing, is that and it could even be like inclusive sizing, like that sort of thing.

00:28:43:01 - 00:28:49:02

Crystal Carter

So like Sancho’s Dress is another website that I know that has like inclusive sizing and stuff because I've definitely been shopping.

00:28:49:04 - 00:28:50:01

Crystal Carter

With some of my like.

00:28:50:01 - 00:28:55:22

Crystal Carter

Plus size sisters and they were like, I hate shopping because there's never anything cute. Like, I could never find anything.

00:28:55:22 - 00:28:58:01

Crystal Carter

That I like. It's always like, awful.

00:28:58:01 - 00:29:01:08

Crystal Carter

So, like that they're websites that have plus size stuff and I and I'm absolutely.

00:29:01:08 - 00:29:02:24

Crystal Carter

Loving that there's so many. Like, like I.

00:29:04:11 - 00:29:14:11

Joyann Boyce

How do they describe their inclusive sizing because that one for me in my experience I can find tall clothing and it goes up to like a size 16 because tall people apparently or skinny.

00:29:14:19 - 00:29:17:17

Joyann Boyce

Or I can find plus size clothing but that doesn't go tall.

00:29:17:17 - 00:29:19:00

Crystal Carter

It’s not tall.

00:29:19:02 - 00:29:21:07

Joyann Boyce

All fuller body people are short.

00:29:21:09 - 00:29:22:06

Crystal Carter

Right.

00:29:22:08 - 00:29:25:00

Joyann Boyce

What is inclusive sizing for anyone who hasn't heard about it?

00:29:25:08 - 00:29:41:22

Crystal Carter

So inclusive sizing is so for instance you see like ASOS has like ASOS curve or whatever, which is, which has like a sort of has like I think they're, I think over 16 and I know that Sancho’s, Scancho’s dress, which is a fantastic.

00:29:41:22 - 00:29:49:05

Crystal Carter

Business, which you should check out. They've got lots of inclusive stuff in there. Thanks. Also, Black owned, shout out to Kalkidan Legesse

and she.

00:29:49:05 - 00:29:55:17

Crystal Carter

Is so, so they have inclusive sizing throughout, throughout their, their things. But what's, what's really useful is that like you can.

00:29:55:17 - 00:29:59:12

Crystal Carter

Declare what that means to your website. You can say we have.

00:29:59:12 - 00:30:14:16

Crystal Carter

This again, you can write a blog or something that says, you know, we, this is, this is how we do it here. This is, this is what the sizes are. And also, like just giving people the information is really, really useful. I think that certainly, like I said, I have diet drama.

00:30:14:16 - 00:30:19:23

Crystal Carter

Like food drama and stuff that in my household we've had food drama as I have somebody who's gluten free, but.

00:30:19:23 - 00:30:27:00

Crystal Carter

Somebody is a nut allergy and things, things like that. So, I think that that like what I find is what I don't.

00:30:27:00 - 00:30:28:14

Crystal Carter

Like is when you can't find any information.

00:30:30:19 - 00:30:32:01

Crystal Carter

You know. So, if there so for instance.

00:30:32:01 - 00:30:40:00

Crystal Carter

If you're looking at these jeans and you're like, but what are the dimensions of these jeans? And they don't tell you, they just say large, small, medium. And I'm like, What does that mean?

00:30:40:02 - 00:30:59:01

Joyann Boyce

When they don’t have the inseam, that is my pet. I'm going to I'm going to name and shame them. Dorothy Perkins does not display their inseams and I have ordered various things and they come in a variety and I'm like, just put the inseams on that. It's a simple number. You know what it is. Don't tell me the height of the model.

00:30:59:03 - 00:31:00:10

Joyann Boyce

Tell me the inseam.

00:31:00:12 - 00:31:16:12

Crystal Carter

Right. Exactly. So, so what are the things and one of the things that you get is it like if you just give people information, they can, people will know what they need to search for. People will know what they need, what they need to get to, to be able to confirm whether or not something is good for them or not good for them.

00:31:16:17 - 00:31:20:03

Crystal Carter

So, I think, I think providing information is very inclusive. Also, it.

00:31:20:03 - 00:31:30:16

Crystal Carter

Speaks to folks on the autistic spectrum because a lot of folks on the autistic spectrum really want all the information straight away. They want to walk through. They want to know like what the you know, what's going on with all of that, all of that sort of stuff.

00:31:30:16 - 00:31:50:03

Crystal Carter

So, I think if you're if you have the information available, then people can make intelligent decisions based on, based on what they need. So, if we're thinking about sizing, for instance, say, you know, this is this kind of size, it's European, this, it's EU, this it's, I'm sorry, it's European, this is UK, this is US. That this is the inseam, this is the that, that sort of thing.

00:31:50:09 - 00:31:51:24

Crystal Carter

So, for instance like, so I have, I have.

00:31:51:24 - 00:31:52:23

Crystal Carter

Big feet and.

00:31:52:23 - 00:31:55:11

Crystal Carter

I can fit a European 42.

00:31:55:12 - 00:32:04:17

Crystal Carter

Exactly. But I cannot fit. But sometimes people say it's an eight and it's 42 and sometimes people say it's an eight and it's actually 41 and I can't fit 41.

00:32:04:20 - 00:32:06:10

Crystal Carter

I could fit 42, but I can't fit 41.

00:32:06:10 - 00:32:26:01

Crystal Carter

Sometimes they say it's seven, it is 41. So, like, so I'm just like, just tell me what it is like. Just tell me all the things. If you tell me all the things that I can make a decision and this is what's important. I think so include as much information about your products on your website so that people can make the intelligent, intelligent decisions based on what they need, you know, which inseam you need right?

00:32:26:03 - 00:32:54:22

Joyann Boyce

And that's how we're becoming as a society. We are a lot more individualised. I'm curious to know, though, because there's an element and a shift I've seen in the hair space where companies like Dyson and so forth are doing the right thing, making products that's accessible for Afro hair, but I'm not seeing their language about it. They kind of say, oh, curly and me, when I see curly, I am not thinking my hair, kinky and afro hair.

00:32:54:22 - 00:33:15:10

Joyann Boyce

I'm thinking, you know, a ringlets or something. What are, what are your thoughts on those companies just specifically saying made for Black hair or using those language that may not be, they're not a Black-owned company, obviously, but to, to improve that like, that balance of if you are not it can you still use that language?

00:33:15:12 - 00:33:32:22

Crystal Carter

Yeah, I think that, I think that what can be, what is important is to connect with those communities and to understand which communities are working with you. I know what Dyson has done that in particular, they've got that like the, the inverse hair dryer, for instance. I think it's like a one where like we're like, you don't blow it out.

00:33:32:22 - 00:33:56:18

Crystal Carter

Yeah. It pulls your hair in, that sort of thing. And so, I think that like with the curly thing, you could go, okay, but like what you would also, also say is like, it's like within, like within the curly community. And I know that, and I know some folks who are within the curly girl community, but use a lot of the, the sort of, sort of African natural hair techniques.

00:33:56:18 - 00:33:59:16

Crystal Carter

And there's a lot of overlap between the two.

00:33:59:18 - 00:34:05:18

Crystal Carter

I watch a lot of YouTube hair videos, it’s like one of the things I do on YouTube and what I find.

00:34:05:18 - 00:34:11:07

Crystal Carter

Is that like there is language that crosses across, across it. For instance, like there's curl type people.

00:34:11:07 - 00:34:12:09

Crystal Carter

Talk about curl types.

00:34:12:09 - 00:34:19:06

Crystal Carter

People say, you know, 4C hair, they say, you know, 3B hair like that sort of thing. And if you had, if they.

00:34:19:06 - 00:34:21:18

Crystal Carter

Had the curl type on there, then you.

00:34:21:18 - 00:34:25:04

Crystal Carter

Would be able to know whether or not like that is.

00:34:25:20 - 00:34:35:08

Crystal Carter

The, the right the right one for use. If they said this works for curl types between like 2C and for like 4C and you'd be like, okay, cool.

00:34:35:08 - 00:34:37:02

Crystal Carter

And like that. Like great.

00:34:37:02 - 00:34:37:17

Joyann Boyce

And then that answers the question.

00:34:37:17 - 00:34:54:19

Crystal Carter

That answers the question. So I think it's really important that even if you, if you're trying to be inclusive, make sure that you're using the language that the, that the community are using so that they can and that again, that comes back to, to, to SEO, with SEO one of the most valuable things that you get from SEO is audience research.

00:34:54:24 - 00:35:14:13

Crystal Carter

So, you can research the kinds of, the kinds of terminology that people are using to talk about whatever it is that you have. For instance, I know that, that, I remember some, and this is this is a general thing, but somebody was talking about, oh, what's the difference between a gym and a gymnasium? Like, should we use gymnasium when we're talking about our fitness suite?

00:35:14:13 - 00:35:15:00

Crystal Carter

And I'm like.

00:35:15:00 - 00:35:21:03

Crystal Carter

No, because a gymnasium is a place where you play basketball, a gym is a place where you might lift.

00:35:21:23 - 00:35:22:13

Crystal Carter

Weights. Or something.

00:35:22:17 - 00:35:26:20

Crystal Carter

So, the words are not interchangeable. They're different things.

00:35:26:22 - 00:35:33:04

Joyann Boyce

That’s so interesting because to me, a gymnasium in the UK is where kids go and do sports.

00:35:33:06 - 00:35:33:11

Crystal Carter

Right?

00:35:33:11 - 00:35:37:20

Crystal Carter

Exactly. It's like a big room where there's like there there's like basketball or badminton or.

00:35:38:00 - 00:35:39:07

Joyann Boyce

No basketball. Trampolines and stuff.

00:35:39:07 - 00:35:41:09

Crystal Carter

It's this sort of thing.

00:35:41:09 - 00:35:47:14

Joyann Boyce

A gymnasium, it' so interesting because then you go back to the location of the audience. But yeah.

00:35:47:16 - 00:35:56:21

Crystal Carter

Right, precisely. So that's something that you can research and you can, and you can, and you can figure out how your audience is speaking, which, which will reflect how they will search.

00:35:57:01 - 00:35:58:15

Crystal Carter

Which will reflect how you will.

00:35:58:15 - 00:36:21:00

Crystal Carter

Rank and how you will how you will perform on SEO. So again, like I think if you're using the terminology, for instance, that's around that, if you're using like say like 4C, 3B, etc., etc., etc., then that would that would cover everything. For instance. I know, I know like I, I eat a lot of vegan food or whatever, but substitute, so there's a difference between vegan food and plant based.

00:36:21:00 - 00:36:22:14

Crystal Carter

Food, for instance.

00:36:22:16 - 00:36:29:18

Crystal Carter

And like there's, there's different variations between, between those things and, and even if you're going to get into.

00:36:29:18 - 00:36:36:16

Crystal Carter

It, like get into it like do the research, do the research and understand what people the way that people are.

00:36:36:16 - 00:36:55:17

Crystal Carter

Talking about it. And then, and, and, you know, connect with, connect with people who are in the community. There are plenty of people depending on whichever, whichever community you're trying to engage with. There's going to be folks who are working in that community who are creating content around that community. And you can see what resonates by looking at their content.

00:36:55:17 - 00:37:17:12

Crystal Carter

So, you know, Instagram is a great place, a great place for this. TikTok is a great place for this. But like an Instagram, there's tons of hashtags, like a hashtag on TikTok, there's tons of hashtags that will talk about various different things. And like I learned, I started getting more interested in like sort of Native American communities and started following what they called, like Native.

00:37:17:14 - 00:37:38:14

Crystal Carter

It was like native talk or whatever is what they what they call it. And, and there's a lot of a lot of really interesting conversations being had there. And there's going to be things that come up really regularly within that, within that community, for instance. And you learn more about, about, about those communities by getting involved, involved with them and like genuinely getting involved, you can be like, hey, like, can we help?

00:37:38:14 - 00:37:46:11

Crystal Carter

Like, can we do this? On the other, can we engage? And, and you'll learn the kinds of conversations that people are having. And you can ask questions.

00:37:46:11 - 00:37:48:10

Crystal Carter

Like, can you, you can ask questions and you can.

00:37:48:15 - 00:37:57:16

Crystal Carter

Do things like that, but make sure that you're using the language that you're, that you're doing. And again, one of the things I always say in SEOs like don't just assume we have data.

00:37:57:18 - 00:37:59:20

Crystal Carter

Do research.

00:37:59:22 - 00:38:20:00

Joyann Boyce

Okay, back it by data. So, let's assume that because the other thing that happened in the UK is there was a whole conversation about they're not using the word BAME and what they're going to use. And I had this moment of thought where I'm just like, I know Black and Brown people don't search the word BAME, but I know people who aren't that now trying to reach communities do.

00:38:20:02 - 00:38:20:12

Crystal Carter

Right.

00:38:20:18 - 00:38:30:01

Joyann Boyce

So, there's a missed connection in the word, but I don't know if those people who used to search BAME will know what to search next if you replace it.

00:38:30:03 - 00:38:43:18

Crystal Carter

Right. Right. So, I think that you sometimes get this with, and this is going to be from an SEO point of view, this is going to be very similar to like a rebrand, right? So, what people will do in a rebrand is they'll say like, oh, we used to be called Twitter.

00:38:43:20 - 00:38:49:11

Crystal Carter

Formerly Twitter, now X, and by X you mean terrible.

00:38:49:13 - 00:38:50:12

Crystal Carter

So.

00:38:50:12 - 00:38:52:22

Joyann Boyce

That’s the worst rebrand in history.

00:38:52:24 - 00:38:53:17

Crystal Carter

But, but.

00:38:53:19 - 00:38:56:17

Crystal Carter

But what people will do is they'll go like former formally.

00:38:56:19 - 00:39:21:11

Crystal Carter

So they'll say X bracket, formerly Twitter bracket, and they'll go, they'll go through that sort of thing and, and so you, people will often in particularly in content, especially if something has like multiple names and might have multiple, multiple ways of discussing it will, will often say, you know, this is this is coriander, sometimes referred to as cilantro, for instance.

00:39:21:11 - 00:39:52:16

Crystal Carter

And then they'll go into, to the, to whatever the topic is. And, and so I think it's important to understand those, those like the history of those of that terminology. And again, that might even be like, for instance, if you were if you were working in that space and you were creating a lot of content around that, or if you were creating a lot of products around that, or if you were, you know, being very engaged in that space, probably the thing to do would be to write a, write a blog about the evolution of that term and you know, how you've seen, how you've seen that that change and then you can link to

00:39:52:16 - 00:40:13:19

Crystal Carter

it when. Then you can use that to link to when you're talking about it in different, different spaces. So, for instance, you could see, you could say, and that's a great insight because it's absolutely true that there's people who are working in who are working in spaces, who are looking for that. There's also legacy content. So, people will be talking about things from, will have been talking about, you know, BAME communities eight years ago.

00:40:13:19 - 00:40:29:01

Crystal Carter

Maybe they're not talking using that terminology now, but that doesn't mean that the content doesn't still exist and some of it might still be useful. So, so if you have if you have that as a, as a, as a talking point, then that's something that people can refer to.

00:40:29:03 - 00:40:31:10

Crystal Carter

That you can refer to. So, and.

00:40:31:11 - 00:40:32:00

Joyann Boyce

Retrospective.

00:40:32:05 - 00:40:42:01

Crystal Carter

Right? So, I have a content that's like how to create user first, I have a piece of content on, on the Wix SEO Learning Hub called How to Create User First Content. And I talk about like.

00:40:42:03 - 00:40:45:04

Crystal Carter

Making content that you will refer to because if you're.

00:40:45:04 - 00:40:49:05

Crystal Carter

Finding that you're having that conversation really regularly, what you can do is you can make.

00:40:49:05 - 00:40:51:00

Crystal Carter

A piece of content that.

00:40:51:00 - 00:41:01:24

Crystal Carter

Says, and again, it's not from, from search volumes. You're not looking at search volume. You know that people are asking you this. So, you can say, hey, if somebody says what, what does that term mean?

00:41:02:01 - 00:41:03:21

Crystal Carter

You go. Here's my blog all on it.

00:41:05:01 - 00:41:08:12

Crystal Carter

And here's the link. Here's all of the things that you need. And also, if you want to.

00:41:08:12 - 00:41:31:21

Crystal Carter

Refer to it, you can say, oh, here's, here's this, here's that. So those conversations that you're having really regularly and again, if you're, and that's a great, actually that, that particular topic, that particular article is actually really useful for that for this conversation because if you're finding that, that for instance, if you're at a café and you're finding that lots of people are wanting dairy free stuff, then you can say you can say, hey, and I say, like one of the things you should do is talk to the people on the shop floor.

00:41:31:21 - 00:41:45:07

Crystal Carter

If you're finding that the people in your shop floor are, are finding that lots of people are coming in here and they're saying that they, they can't actually access this or, you know, one of the things that's accessible and accessibility point is lots of people are like or menus online. It's like, well, what.

00:41:45:07 - 00:41:47:20

Crystal Carter

If people aren't online or if.

00:41:47:24 - 00:41:53:08

Joyann Boyce

Or don’t have their phone with them or aren't able to like it's not accessible online in a way they can understand it.

00:41:53:24 - 00:42:10:24

Crystal Carter

Right. Right. And what if it doesn't work for them? Or like, what if, what if they like, you know, what do they do then? So, so, so, you know, if you, and if you're finding that people on shop floor are like we're having this issue, then that might be something you could solve online or create, or create online in a different, in a different way.

00:42:11:01 - 00:42:31:15

Crystal Carter

Similarly, similarly, if you're finding that your sales folks are asking you, like they're getting lots of questions about, about something that's a particular way, then that's, that's another piece of content that you could create or product that you can create, etc. But again, if you're finding that you're having the same conversations about, about, you know, explaining the difference between BAME and BME.

00:42:31:17 - 00:42:32:22

Crystal Carter

And P.O.C.

00:42:32:22 - 00:42:35:02

Crystal Carter

And all of that. So, I just.

00:42:35:02 - 00:42:48:20

Joyann Boyce

Just for reference. BAME is, I just realised we said it a hundred times, we didn't say it's a Black Asian Ethnic Minority, it's a term that was used by the British government quite often. And then came 2020, like a lot of governments and a lot of places, they reassessed if it was appropriate to use the term.

00:42:48:22 - 00:42:50:04

Crystal Carter

Exactly.

00:42:50:06 - 00:42:56:16

Crystal Carter

Yes, it was a term that was new to me when I moved in, when I moved to England, I was like, well, yeah, they don't use it in America.

00:42:56:18 - 00:43:07:02

Joyann Boyce

What would they use? Because I know now it's POC, people of colour, BIPOC Black Indigenous People of Colour. What was before that? Was there anything?

00:43:07:04 - 00:43:11:23

Crystal Carter

People would just like, people had, people would just refer to themselves.

00:43:11:23 - 00:43:16:17

Crystal Carter

In whatever community they referred to themselves as.

00:43:16:19 - 00:43:17:20

Crystal Carter

I don't know.

00:43:17:22 - 00:43:20:06

Joyann Boyce

My British brain was just like: What, were they grouping everyone together? We’re so used to that here in the UK.

00:43:22:20 - 00:43:25:13

Joyann Boyce

So used to them chucking us all in one thing.

00:43:25:15 - 00:43:25:24

Crystal Carter

Yeah.

00:43:26:01 - 00:43:28:14

Crystal Carter

I have no comment on that.

00:43:28:16 - 00:43:56:01

Joyann Boyce

So side story, but I remember it was a university that got called out and that kind of started this thread where they were saying like 12 or 20, that there BAME student population had gone up by like 20% and people like huh, but they had posted in relation to Black History Month and everyone was just like, huh, but you said BAME and they broke it down as like, actually no, you're Asian and specifically your East Asian students have gone up, not your Black students. Why are you

00:43:56:01 - 00:44:02:07

Joyann Boyce

posting about it in Black History Month? It’s still a good thing, but lumping it together is what, anyways. Got them away with it.

00:44:02:11 - 00:44:05:22

Crystal Carter

These things can be complicated.

00:44:05:24 - 00:44:27:04

Joyann Boyce

Multi-Layered. But on an SEO term, keep it there, have your legacy content and then update and change the narrative and even have a piece. I really, one of the things I enjoy about working with you and when we've worked on clients in the past is you can provide a lot of insights, but it's very practical, is very staged, like all of these things are things they can do over a period of time.

00:44:27:06 - 00:44:28:04

Crystal Carter

Mm hmm.

00:44:28:06 - 00:44:36:20

Joyann Boyce

And like implement it. And a lot of it, when I'm thinking about it from the, like social media marker side of things, a lot of it leads to evergreen content.

00:44:36:22 - 00:44:54:00

Crystal Carter

Yeah, Yeah, precisely. And I think that like, if for instance, if somebody listening to this and they're like, oh, I want to be more inclusive with my like from an SEO point of view straightaway, if you have a local business that the quickest thing you could do, like if you had 20 minutes, you could log in to your Google business profile if you have one.

00:44:54:00 - 00:44:56:04

Crystal Carter

I hope you have one. If you don't have one, then set.

00:44:56:04 - 00:44:56:19

Crystal Carter

Aside another.

00:44:56:19 - 00:44:58:17

Crystal Carter

Hour to set up your Google business.

00:44:58:17 - 00:45:09:07

Crystal Carter

Profile because it's absolutely worth it. If you're on Wix, we have, we have a, an integration, so it makes it super easy. And if you're in the UK and you're on Wix, you can even get verified.

00:45:09:13 - 00:45:21:23

Crystal Carter

Within your Google business profile super quickly. So like that's how important we think it is. We've invested a lot in it because it's that important. If you're not on Wix, you should also do this. So, so basically.

00:45:22:02 - 00:45:23:16

Crystal Carter

If you have it, if you have an hour and you haven't.

00:45:23:16 - 00:45:24:16

Crystal Carter

Done your Google business travel.

00:45:24:16 - 00:45:42:24

Crystal Carter

Do that. And if you have, if you have a Google business profile and you have 20 minutes, go into your Google business profile and look at, look at all of the fields and look at the sort of attributes. And I think, think it's under like special attributes or something like that and state, you know, whether or not you're like LGBTQ friendly or wheelchair access or like things like that.

00:45:42:24 - 00:46:01:09

Crystal Carter

Add those things in because that will make your that will, that will increase your, your, that will increase the, the accessibility in the search ability for, for those for that content straight away. That's if I had to say, that if I had one thing that I would do actionable and actionable thing to, to give to people straight away, I would say absolutely do that.

00:46:02:02 - 00:46:15:05

Joyann Boyce

I absolutely love that so much of this has been very practical in how SEO integrates into all aspects of marketing. But I want us to venture into making maybe a campaign more inclusive.

00:46:15:07 - 00:46:16:16

Crystal Carter

Okay.

00:46:16:18 - 00:46:25:16

Joyann Boyce

I'm trying to think of some and now I've just got in my head an earring campaign, I don’t know why, because yeah, or.

00:46:25:18 - 00:46:27:07

Crystal Carter

Or.

00:46:27:07 - 00:46:36:02

Joyann Boyce

Or you can pick a Wix related thing and make it more inclusive, but I feel like you guys probably do a lot already.

00:46:36:04 - 00:46:37:19

Crystal Carter

Certainly, certainly across our Wix

00:46:37:23 - 00:47:03:19

Crystal Carter

SEO learning hub like we have. There is an annual report about, about that Lidia Infante one of our contributors puts together around like gender inclusivity in a SEO publishing. And last year I think we came in, we came in, we came in pretty good on that. So I think we were I think it was like 48:52 in terms of authors or something of gender, gender split.

00:47:03:21 - 00:47:23:17

Crystal Carter

And there was also another one from the FCDC which is the Freelance Coalition for Developing Countries. And they, they did one about around ethnicity and we also came in a while there. So I think we were top and now we were top or second. I can't remember off the top of my head, but we came in well on that as well.

00:47:23:17 - 00:47:41:10

Crystal Carter

So that's something that, that we, we have done across our contributor, certainly for, for the accessible learning app for instance. And then I think, I think as far, as like as far as campaigns to make campaigns more inclusive.

00:47:41:16 - 00:47:48:06

Joyann Boyce

I actually had another idea because it's all coming to me. As you said, the gender split, it made me think of women in tech SEO.

00:47:49:03 - 00:47:50:04

Crystal Carter

Yes.

00:47:50:06 - 00:47:55:20

Joyann Boyce

How about we think of a campaign for them and how we would. Yeah.

00:47:55:22 - 00:48:09:15

Crystal Carter

Okay. So I guess with Women in Tech SEO, like it's a it's a fantastic organisation. If anyone is listening and they are someone who identifies as a woman and is working in SEO or in a tangential space. So if you're working on content.

00:48:09:17 - 00:48:14:04

Crystal Carter

And you're saying, Oh, I'm not really into SEO, you are, it's fine, it’s fine you are.

00:48:14:06 - 00:48:33:19

Crystal Carter

Are you working social even or digital and things like that, then join Women in Tech SEO. It's fantastic. It's amazing. It's incredible. You can ask any question in the Slack channel and nobody's going to go, oh, you didn't know that. How come you didn't, like nobody's going to do that. They'll just be like, oh, it's this and they'll help you because people help each other.

00:48:33:21 - 00:48:39:06

Crystal Carter

And it's also like not one of those Slack channels where they're like, oh, join our Slack channel. And you get there and it's terrible.

00:48:39:06 - 00:48:42:20

Crystal Carter

There's nothing there. And the people that are there are just posting like.

00:48:42:24 - 00:48:44:19

Crystal Carter

Look at this thing I did. Look at this thing I did.

00:48:44:19 - 00:48:48:21

Crystal Carter

Look at this thing I did. It's not about that at all. It's a great Slack channel.

00:48:48:21 - 00:49:16:15

Crystal Carter

It's really active and things. I think in terms of campaigns, I think they're, I think they're really good at promoting, promoting lots of different folks from different backgrounds within it. And I think they're mindful of, of that as well. They have their, they have their London event coming up in February or March. It'll be in there around Women International Women's Day.

00:49:16:17 - 00:49:21:00

Crystal Carter

And I think that if we were to think about making it more inclusive and I'm.

00:49:21:00 - 00:49:24:11

Crystal Carter

Sure Areej will probably be thinking about this anyway.

00:49:24:13 - 00:49:49:14

Crystal Carter

And she is very inclusive as well. So I think, I think maybe, maybe it might be worth making a piece of content that was specifically dedicated to all of the ways that they, that they make it, they make it inclusive. So the venue is the Barbican. It's super accessible and for, for physical, for physical needs. And they also have a prayer room and a quiet space for folks who.

00:49:49:14 - 00:49:56:15

Crystal Carter

Might be, might be like a little overwhelmed or maybe the like a little just need a minute. Like let me just like get some quiet times to the.

00:49:56:17 - 00:50:20:04

Crystal Carter

To the, so the choir space is really good as well. They also have they also have a space for like nursing if you need to do that. They also make sure that all of the guides, so I volunteered there last, last February and at the end, I just spoke at the Philadelphia event and at both, in both cases, they make sure that all of their, all.

00:50:20:04 - 00:50:21:05

Crystal Carter

Of their volunteers are very.

00:50:21:05 - 00:50:40:14

Crystal Carter

Clearly marked. So, every, all the volunteers have a scarf and they all wear black and have a scarf. So it's all, so if you need any help from anyone, it's very easy to find folks because you can see who they are, which is really useful for, for people who, who might need assistance and also and lots of other, other needs as well.

00:50:40:18 - 00:50:45:13

Joyann Boyce

Do you see that as a blog or do you see that as a video?

00:50:45:15 - 00:50:56:18

Crystal Carter

I think that, I think that you could potentially do both. I'm, I'm a big advocate for doing video where you can. But I think that, I think that the only the.

00:50:56:20 - 00:50:57:00

Crystal Carter

The.

00:50:57:05 - 00:51:21:09

Crystal Carter

Good thing about doing it a blog is that it allows you to, to update it so you can have one piece of evergreen content that is like how we do inclusivity at our events and then you can have a paragraph that's specific to this particular event and then you have another one that specific to another event. And, and it means that you don't have to redo that content that you'd have to do like our inclusive events 2022.

00:51:21:21 - 00:51:23:24

Crystal Carter

2023 or 2020, whatever.

00:51:24:03 - 00:51:36:18

Crystal Carter

You don't have to do a new one every time you can have one page that's like how we inclusive, for instance, and you would, you would include that. So they, they, they have lots of, they, they take lots of care and I think that Areej who is, is the.

00:51:36:18 - 00:51:39:04

Crystal Carter

Founder and.

00:51:39:06 - 00:52:03:08

Crystal Carter

She's amazing she's incredible and she's very conscious of, of needs that folks have. And Brighton SEO is also a space. It's really that it's also a team that's really, really conscious of, of being, of being welcoming to, to folks with lots of, lots of different, different needs. So for instance, they have, they have a crèche at their at their event to make sure that it's more accessible for, for folks.

00:52:03:08 - 00:52:27:22

Crystal Carter

They also make sure that it's, that it's financially accessible. So they have like a ballot for, for people to get free, free tickets. And also, they keep the tickets at a pretty fairly reasonable price as well, so, so that's something they do. They also make, make an effort to, to encourage first time speakers to, to get involved with their, with their space as well.

00:52:27:24 - 00:52:40:15

Crystal Carter

So, so yeah I think that, I think that for, for events making sure that again making sure that it's clear and easy for people to find to find out that they're welcome is, is really useful.

00:52:40:17 - 00:53:06:18

Joyann Boyce

I like that. I think that there's three pieces of content I'm imagining that I'm imagining you're full like pillar piece of content about, you know, generally how we do it, how we do inclusive events and then your specific, venue specific one. But then it's going to sound so cheesy, but I can think of like, you know, those cheesy corporate videos that they do to show how it's like to work at a company.

00:53:09:01 - 00:53:31:12

Joyann Boyce

I can think of a corporate-ish style video. If we specifically think about Women in Tech SEO, Women in Tech SEO be like women who tech SEO and, and then the end is each bit of inclusion so and they breastfeed and work and they do this and, and it just kind of shows it but with a little bit of like sarcasm as well.

00:53:31:14 - 00:53:34:17

Crystal Carter

Yeah I think that can be fun, I think, I think that could be absolutely fun.

00:53:34:21 - 00:53:35:22

Crystal Carter

Definitely.

00:53:35:22 - 00:53:42:22

Joyann Boyce

So many of the event stuff is just like, oh yes, here is our door, here is our thing. But it just adds some personality to it. I think that could be fun.

00:53:42:24 - 00:53:44:01

Crystal Carter

Hmm. Mm hmm.

00:53:44:03 - 00:53:55:03

Joyann Boyce

I like how you added all the layers of because all of that leads back into establishing content that will be helpful when people are searching about your event, about your location, about your venue.

00:53:55:05 - 00:54:01:09

Crystal Carter

And I think the other thing that's really important is that, like we think of it, people think of it like, Oh, I'm doing a nice thing.

00:54:01:14 - 00:54:07:03

Crystal Carter

By being inclusive, like, oh, I'm so wonderful, I'm such a nice person.

00:54:07:05 - 00:54:28:24

Crystal Carter

Do it because it's a good thing to do. It's like it's also a business thing. It's also like, it's also a business case as well because like, it's a dealbreaker, right? Like, it's like if I have a crew, if I'm, if I'm, if I'm in a group of, if I'm in a group of ten people. Right. And the chances are like, statistically speaking, you probably know this off the top of your head, but like how many people in ten have a disability in the UK for instance?

00:54:29:00 - 00:54:32:00

Joyann Boyce

Oh, it depends on age, but it's probably like two, two in ten.

00:54:32:02 - 00:54:50:04

Crystal Carter

Right. Okay. So you have so if you have a birthday party now, you're like, I'm just thinking about like a, like an event or like if I say going out for her birthday dinner with ten people, chances are somebody is going to need something, right? Some additional, some additional consideration. And certainly there's going to be somebody with a dietary consideration.

00:54:50:07 - 00:54:50:20

Crystal Carter

There could very.

00:54:50:20 - 00:55:07:20

Crystal Carter

Well be somebody who's got like, you know, eyesight challenges, etc., etc., and the and etc., various different things. So if I have a situation where this restaurant or venue or whatever doesn't satisfy the need of one of the people in my group, the whole group is not going.

00:55:07:24 - 00:55:08:17

Crystal Carter

Yeah, the whole.

00:55:08:17 - 00:55:20:05

Crystal Carter

Groups are going and the table of ten, like that's a lot of, like that's, that's, that's a lot of money that you're missing out on because you couldn't help one person. And when I'm when, I'm certainly and I know I'm talking about dinners or.

00:55:20:05 - 00:55:22:05

Crystal Carter

Whatever, I'm sorry, but like but when I'm.

00:55:22:05 - 00:55:38:20

Crystal Carter

When I'm booking, when I'm looking for a place to book. So one, one place if I'm looking for a place to, place to like book a dinner or something like that, I'm always looking for the ones that cover everybody. So I'm thinking of like, like Wahaca, for instance, is, is one that's really good. They have a vegan menu.

00:55:38:20 - 00:55:42:11

Crystal Carter

They have a gluten free menu. Like there's, when I go to Brighton.

00:55:42:15 - 00:55:43:21

Crystal Carter

Very often go to Wahaca.

00:55:43:23 - 00:55:59:05

Crystal Carter

And so they've got vegan menu, they’ve got a gluten free menu they've got and they've, you know, they're ground floor, at ground level accessible, like various different things. And so I know whoever I invite is going to be fine, right? So people are like, can I come? I'm like, yeah, of course you can. You can come, everybody can come.

00:55:59:11 - 00:56:10:12

Crystal Carter

Whoever can come can come by because I know everybody can come. And then then it means like, cool, that's done. So I don't have to. I don't have to go. Oh do you, do you are you did it. I know they've got it covered. It's fine.

00:56:10:14 - 00:56:25:09

Joyann Boyce

And there’s so few spaces that are like or I kind of say those few spaces, I don't know of any because the content is not there. They're not telling me otherwise. So I'm having to do the search and I get annoyed and I go to, since I find one, I stick with that one.

00:56:25:09 - 00:56:26:01

Crystal Carter

Right.

00:56:26:03 - 00:56:35:13

Crystal Carter

Right. Precisely. Precisely. So I think that, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's a dealbreaker. Like sometimes it's a dealbreaker. It's like, oh, well, they don't have you know, they don't have this so we’re.

00:56:35:16 - 00:56:44:11

Crystal Carter

None of us are going because they don't have the thing for this one crew. This person in my crew, none of us are going, we're not doing that because it doesn’t, it doesn't work.

00:56:44:13 - 00:57:08:04

Crystal Carter

And, you know, we've had, we have, we had a beef. We have, we've had dinners for Wix at some of some conference events and stuff. And we invite lots of folks who from the from lots of us experts to, you know, to connect and, and network, etc., etc.. And there's definitely whenever we look for whatever venue we're going to have, it's like, is it accessible for folks?

00:57:08:07 - 00:57:15:12

Crystal Carter

Because like, even if there's even temporary stuff, like if somebody of someplace, somebody, you know, hurts their ankle or something and they've got to wear a boot.

00:57:15:22 - 00:57:28:22

Crystal Carter

For that, I don't want them to not be able to come because, because of that. And I think that that yeah, it's important to make sure that people, people feel welcome and that people don't feel like, like it's, like it's, it's, it's.

00:57:28:22 - 00:57:35:21

Crystal Carter

Like we've got to make it a big thing. A lot of times people don't want to make it, make it a big thing. They just want to like, you know, sit down.

00:57:35:23 - 00:57:59:09

Joyann Boyce

It's, it's like I'm excited for and this is where I see kind of inclusion in the digital space and physical space going more, so when I say physical is I mean like printed menus and marketing physical, to become like how you just see the V and the VG and the GF on a menu. I'm excited for me to go on a website and just be like, oh, I didn't even have to search to see if is accessible.

00:57:59:09 - 00:58:05:23

Joyann Boyce

I don't have to search to see that. It just becomes a thing that we naturally do. And I think marketers have a huge role to play.

00:58:06:04 - 00:58:06:20

Crystal Carter

Right.

00:58:06:22 - 00:58:10:07

Joyann Boyce

In this and making it just the way it is.

00:58:10:12 - 00:58:10:22

Crystal Carter

Yeah.

00:58:10:22 - 00:58:23:21

Crystal Carter

Women in Tech SEO in Philadelphia I spoke to a lot about, about media types for instance like in different media that you can add to it like adding images to, to your blogs or whatever. It's also like really useful for, for connecting with different people.

00:58:23:21 - 00:58:46:22

Crystal Carter

One of the things you're seeing really regularly as well is, it's audio. So you people will say, you know, can I, can, can I listen to this article and that again, that not only does that add like a certain content richness, but it also makes it more inclusive because like somebody who's, somebody who might have visual impairment will be able to access, access that, but also like, maybe I'm tired, like maybe my eyes.

00:58:46:22 - 00:58:49:10

Crystal Carter

Are tired from staring at a screen for, for.

00:58:49:12 - 00:59:05:14

Crystal Carter

You know, for ages or maybe I'm in a place where like where, you know, maybe I'm out with my kid or something and I'm in the playground and I, and I need to keep my eye on them. So, like, I want to listen to the thing. So you're creating more opportunities by including more of these different elements.

00:59:05:16 - 00:59:22:09

Crystal Carter

Also within, within the schema markup, for instance, you can, you can designate certain as like, as like speakable or, or you know, you can say, you know, this is a place where people enter, this is a place to enter it. And this is a place where people, people can like find the.

00:59:22:09 - 00:59:24:23

Crystal Carter

Customer service number for instance. Things like that.

00:59:24:23 - 00:59:40:12

Crystal Carter

Like that. And that makes it more accessible and lots of, lots of ways. So one of the things that schema markup does, and if people don't what that is, it's essentially, it's a bit of script that you can add, a bit of a bit of html that you can add into the back end of your web page to make it easier for bots to understand a different.

00:59:40:12 - 00:59:41:12

Crystal Carter

Parts of your.

00:59:41:12 - 00:59:46:02

Crystal Carter

Web page. So for instance, rather than having to read the whole recipe blog.

00:59:46:02 - 00:59:50:12

Crystal Carter

That includes like 25, you know, 250 words about like sunsets.

00:59:50:14 - 01:00:20:15

Crystal Carter

Or something you can just get the actual recipe for the chocolate cake in the schema markup and pull out the ingredients, etc., etc., etc.. And what Google can do is Google can pull that into the search results. So when somebody searches for chocolate cake, they'll pull out the important parts from the schema markup. Similarly, when people are using, with using Chrome, you can, you can, you can change around your chrome configuration on your phone or on your, or on your, your web browser so that it's more and more accessible for you.

01:00:20:21 - 01:00:24:06

Crystal Carter

Like, I have one I have, like I said, my, my eyesight like.

01:00:24:06 - 01:00:26:04

Crystal Carter

My eyesight about two years ago just gave up.

01:00:26:10 - 01:00:48:04

Crystal Carter

And, and what I, what I have like a zoom thing on my phone so I can zoom in on, on anything. And there's different things that you can people will you know will set the, will set the text really big or things like that. So Google is kind of if you configure your website with your schema markup, for instance, Google can help you to make your content more accessible to more people even before they come to your website.

01:00:48:06 - 01:00:54:01

Crystal Carter

So these are things that you can, that you can consider all the way through. And that leads us to a point where like the information is just available, like.

01:00:55:05 - 01:00:56:06

Crystal Carter

You know, like I don't mind.

01:00:56:06 - 01:00:57:06

Crystal Carter

If it's.

01:00:57:06 - 01:01:00:04

Crystal Carter

It’s naturally just there. Like, like as somebody who doesn't eat meat, I don't.

01:01:00:04 - 01:01:11:16

Crystal Carter

Mind if you don't have, if you don't have options for me, but just tell me, don't make me like sit down and my get my coat off and then I sit down and there's nothing for me to eat like.

01:01:12:05 - 01:01:15:15

Joyann Boyce

Go through the whole menu looking at things and having to Google certain words, you're like, is that a?

01:01:15:15 - 01:01:16:15

Crystal Carter

Right.

01:01:16:15 - 01:01:18:10

Joyann Boyce

What’s in that?

01:01:18:12 - 01:01:19:03

Crystal Carter

Right. Just write the thing.

01:01:19:08 - 01:01:20:03

Crystal Carter

Don't make me ask and.

01:01:20:03 - 01:01:22:12

Crystal Carter

Don't bring out the ring binder. Like, I don't want to see your ring.

01:01:22:12 - 01:01:25:00

Crystal Carter

Binder, like, go away.

01:01:25:02 - 01:01:26:04

Crystal Carter

So, you know, just.

01:01:26:04 - 01:01:29:17

Crystal Carter

Make it make it easily accessible so people can just know that it's fine.

01:01:29:17 - 01:01:34:00

Crystal Carter

They're welcome. It's all good. We've thought of you like that, and that's that.

01:01:34:00 - 01:01:37:04

Crystal Carter

And I think that that's a great customer care thing. Like, if you care about.

01:01:37:04 - 01:01:38:15

Crystal Carter

Your customers, I actually care about.

01:01:38:15 - 01:01:39:19

Crystal Carter

Your customers.

01:01:39:21 - 01:01:50:16

Joyann Boyce

And show it. Wow. This has been actually amazing. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. Please let our listeners and viewers know where they can find you on the Internet.

01:01:50:18 - 01:01:54:07

Crystal Carter

So my, my Twitter handle.

01:01:54:09 - 01:01:56:18

Crystal Carter

Which I used to love Twitter so much. It's so funny now.

01:01:56:18 - 01:02:01:12

Crystal Carter

Anyway, is Crystal on the Web. You can also find me on LinkedIn.

01:02:01:14 - 01:02:02:08

Crystal Carter

As Krystal J.

01:02:02:08 - 01:02:29:02

Crystal Carter

Carter and you can also find me on the Wix SEO Learning Hub. So I write there I also link things, link things from there, I think things like that. And I host a monthly webinar and a weekly podcast with Mordy Oberstein and we talk about search and we talk about we, we get some great insights from some amazing, some amazing SEO experts every single month.

01:02:29:04 - 01:02:36:22

Crystal Carter

So do check that out and on the podcast every single week. So check that out and, and yeah, see you on, see you on, online.

01:02:36:24 - 01:03:02:11

Joyann Boyce

See you on the internets. One of my favourite YouTubers says that all the time. We’ll pop all those notes in the shownotes, all those links in the shownotes. Thank you for listening to the Marketing Made Inclusive podcast. I am your host Joyann Boyce. You can find me on the internet everywhere actually, and please be sure to subscribe, leave a review and share it with your network so we can all continue to make inclusive marketing the industry standard.

Jade Pett

Ep 31: How to Make Your SEO Inclusive with Crystal Carter

Shownotes

Transcript

Ep 32: Marketing internationally: mcdonald’s case study

Ep 30: Tips for Inclusive Social Media Marketing

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