Ep 41: End of Season Two Reflection
Shownotes
It’s the final episode of season two! Join Joyann and Jade as they reflect on the podcast’s second season, including their favourite episodes, lessons they’ve learned and podcast highlights.
Be sure to let us know what you want to see for season three! See you after the break!
You can watch the podcast here.
Sign up to our newsletter here.
You can find the transcript here.
Useful links:
Ep 31: How to Make Your SEO Inclusive with Crystal Carter
Ep 27: How to Market Yourself Inclusively with Teresa Heath-Wareing
Ep 34: How will AI affect Graphic Design with Liz Mosley
Ep 25: Inclusive Design Deep Dive with Eriol Fox
Ep 33: The Evolution of Inclusive Marketing with David Maher Roberts
Ep 38: The Benefits of Being White in Inclusive Marketing with Jon Payne
Transcript
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:26:03
Joyann Boyce
Welcome back and welcome to the finale of season two. I feel like making that song. I don't know why, but welcome to the Marketing Made Inclusive podcast. Thank you for coming and coming back. I am clearly had a strong amount of coffee today. This is our season two finale and I'm joined with Jade to, say hey Jade.
00:00:26:05 - 00:00:30:22
Jade Pett
Hello. Every time.
00:00:30:24 - 00:00:58:21
Joyann Boyce
Every time. And I was just like, I'm just waiting for you to one day be like, hey Jade. But thank you for tuning in to the podcast. As I mentioned already, this is our final episode of season two, and then we're going to take a tiny miniature break. As you know, we like to plan and review.
00:00:58:21 - 00:01:15:00
Joyann Boyce
Before we dive into the break, we wanted to just look back and think about all the guests we've had on this season. I think compared to last season. This has been a lot of amazing guests.
00:01:15:02 - 00:01:18:03
Jade Pett
Yeah. Yeah. A lot, a good range.
00:01:18:05 - 00:01:30:23
Joyann Boyce
A good range. Like I think we had SEO, agency, in-house. We had, I think, two guests from America this season as well.
00:01:31:00 - 00:01:32:08
Jade Pett
Yes. I think so.
00:01:36:05 - 00:01:37:24
Jade Pett
Two designers, I think as well.
00:01:38:01 - 00:01:56:14
Joyann Boyce
To designer like, so many perspectives. So many perspectives, so I'm been trying to think what are our favourite guests? And not even favourite guests, favourite episodes, but there are so many this season. We did 18 episodes, I believe.
00:01:56:16 - 00:02:02:18
Jade Pett
Yes, I believe so. If my maths is correct. I think it's 18. Including this episode.
00:02:02:20 - 00:02:45:03
Joyann Boyce
Including this one. So I am thinking, and I might already be sealing this one from you, Jade, but I've been trying to think four different categories. What episodes are my favourite and I'm going to let you go think while I say which one. One of my favourite practical episodes, is an episode with Crystal. I think you could have seen that one coming where we spoke about everything SEO and ‘How to make your SEO Inclusive with Crystal Carter. Yeah, yeah.
00:02:45:08 - 00:02:49:08
Joyann Boyce
That one was. I couldn't keep up.
00:02:49:10 - 00:02:52:05
Jade Pett
No. I couldn't keep.
00:02:52:07 - 00:03:14:23
Joyann Boyce
I was just like every question I had every aspect because I would say in terms of marketing and market, marketing in general, come in from a social media background. I like to say I have a little bit of base understanding and as many things as possible. Obviously there's the core audience demographic and stuff like that, but SEO is the least I have contact with.
00:03:15:00 - 00:03:59:19
Joyann Boyce
So Crystal was just dropping so many gems in so many ways and so, so many tools that I didn't even like explore. So yeah, that was one of my favourite practical episodes. Another practical one, but I think it was more so from the, at the end when we did the whole make this campaign inclusive little exercise that we do sometimes was episode 27 ‘How to Market Yourself Inclusively’ market yourself inclusive, not me stumbling in over my own, with Theresa Heath Wearing I really liked that end of it where the whole thing was amazing.
00:03:59:19 - 00:04:19:05
Joyann Boyce
But we spoke about different ways of incorporating, incorporating inclusivity into a personal brand. Explored those ideas, and Theresa was an amazing guest as well. How about yourself? What was your favourite practical episodes, Jade?
00:04:19:07 - 00:04:43:20
Jade Pett
The one that's coming to my mind is Liz, trying to find the, we have so many episodes, I kind of find the name. ‘How will AI affect Graphic Design with Liz Mosey.’ And it's practical in a different way because it was so AI centric. There was a lot of discussion about the future of design. But also I remember you talked about like hypotheticals with logos.
00:04:43:20 - 00:04:59:09
Jade Pett
Like I think it was like Pepsi logo changed or something like that. And so the way that the conversation was kind of widened, wasn't like practical like a in specific do this, this and this. But like, I feel like I learned a lot about design in that episode.
00:04:59:11 - 00:05:37:18
Joyann Boyce
Definitely. And it also picks up on another thread, trend that came about through the season. The theme of I felt like a lot of guests touched on it in such like either micro or big areas, but it was weird positioning for me because those who know I am a data scientist as well as a marketeer. So I knew just a little bit about AI, machine learning, you know, just a tad, a tad enough to get a master's, but I didn't really touch on it in this podcast, but it did spark me to do an episode talking a little bit on it.
00:05:37:18 - 00:05:51:18
Joyann Boyce
And I think that's something you might explore in upcoming seasons, really. How does AI impact inclusive marketing? But it's been fascinating to hear different people's use cases, different people's predictions.
00:05:51:20 - 00:06:01:09
Jade Pett
Yeah, yeah. Little secrets. I feel like we got towards the end of the season, I feel like David and Jon had some like, insights.
00:06:01:11 - 00:06:03:01
Joyann Boyce
Which John?
00:06:03:03 - 00:06:04:12
Jade Pett
Jon without the H.
00:06:04:12 - 00:06:26:11
Joyann Boyce
Yeah, I feel like it’s getting integrated into people's workflow more and I think it's going to be really interesting next season when everyone's a bit more natural with AI to start questioning them on this is so weird. Okay, My windows are currently being cleaned.
00:06:26:13 - 00:06:56:05
Joyann Boyce
I'm not sure if the podcast picked that one up, but yeah, people's integration with AI and how they’re incorporating it into different streams because like we mentioned, we've had so many different marketers on here from different aspects. Another aspect I think would be interesting to explore and also one of my favourite episodes, because we looked at it, we didn't take the approach I expected was exploring inclusive design with Eriol.
00:06:56:07 - 00:06:57:07
Jade Pett
Mmm.
00:06:57:09 - 00:07:16:14
Joyann Boyce
That was really interesting because inclusive design has been around for a very long time and we have a whole episode on that. But speaking to Eriol about the day to day aspects of design and between Erol and Liz, we've, we've explored a lot.
00:07:16:16 - 00:07:18:02
Jade Pett
A lot of design.
00:07:18:04 - 00:07:34:09
Joyann Boyce
A lot of design. Okay. What would be your fave solo episode? I feel weird asking it because it's me talking, but.
00:07:34:11 - 00:07:59:13
Jade Pett
The one that comes to mind is I think I think it might be the most recent bar this one is the Christmas episode ‘Reacting to Christmas ads’. I think it's episode 35. Sheerly from your reaction mostly. Also I remember finishing that episode and being like, that was such a nice episode to record because of the emotion behind the ads.
00:07:59:19 - 00:08:11:17
Jade Pett
Like, I feel like a lot of time where we're talking about example campaigns it’s because they've done something wrong, or it's like, yeah, they've done this, but like those ones, the biggest takeaway was the emotion behind them. So that was such a nice treat.
00:08:11:19 - 00:08:39:06
Joyann Boyce
That that was my fave as well because it's so, we spend so much time, unfortunately looking at negativity to recommend positivity. We don't get enough time to like enjoy the positive and that one was so nice and it was nice because I think over recent years we're starting to see people do inclusive marketing and keep the story and not make it a tick box exercise.
00:08:39:08 - 00:08:41:16
Jade Pett
Yeah, definitely.
00:08:41:18 - 00:08:46:19
Joyann Boyce
That also reminds me another thing I enjoyed about this season. I feel like we got deeper.
00:08:46:21 - 00:08:48:16
Jade Pett
Yeah, I agree.
00:08:48:18 - 00:09:10:24
Joyann Boyce
We definitely got into, like we touched on it in season one. Oh gosh, I'm mixing up my guests. But we did touch on intersectionality in season one, I believe, but I feel like it really we're able to get into it a little bit more. And for those who aren't aware about intersectionality, that is looking at the intersection of different marginalisation.
00:09:11:01 - 00:09:44:07
Joyann Boyce
So for example, if you're watching this podcast, you will notice that I am a Black woman, and being a woman and being Black are two intersections that sometimes benefit or negatively impact experiences. And intersectionality within marketing as well is really interesting because so many campaigns, you know what we have spoken about, but always my go to example, so many campaigns will target women but will ignore Black women or ignore trans men because period products.
00:09:44:07 - 00:09:52:23
Joyann Boyce
We have not spoken about period products this season, but we did a lot in first season.
00:09:53:00 - 00:09:59:01
Jade Pett
We did. It was like a strong undercurrent. It would always circle back period products.
00:09:59:03 - 00:10:16:11
Joyann Boyce
It'll always be the one because it's such a perfect example of intersectionality. Something I enjoyed as well was getting an insight, and I believe this was in David's episode of like how marketing, the marketing industry used to be.
00:10:16:13 - 00:10:27:15
Jade Pett
Yes, definitely. And even I feel like a little bit how inclusive marketing and like the kernels of it versus like now.
00:10:27:17 - 00:10:59:03
Joyann Boyce
And it's hard sometimes when you're trying to push for change to think that there hasn't been progress. But some of the stories I think between David’s episode which was episode 33 and Jon's episode. Jon Payne episode 38, sharing some of the things that they witnessed and also hearing the things that they witnessed and that they were able to either push back or talk on as well.
00:10:59:03 - 00:11:01:24
Joyann Boyce
They weren't just always passive to.
00:11:02:01 - 00:11:05:03
Jade Pett
Yeah, I agree.
00:11:05:05 - 00:11:12:23
Joyann Boyce
I remember David mentioning having to cut words out in printed text.
00:11:13:00 - 00:11:17:13
Jade Pett
That’s stuck with me.
00:11:17:15 - 00:11:43:10
Joyann Boyce
Apologies for anyone who worked in marketing back then. We are not saying, well, it just didn't dawn on us and I think I feel quite old sometimes, but I never experienced that. And I don’t want to be ageist right now, but I was like, wow, you had to cut the word out. I just thought there was always like Tipp-Ex.
00:11:43:10 - 00:11:47:10
Joyann Boyce
Or, you know, Wite-Out.
00:11:47:12 - 00:11:51:23
Jade Pett
Okay, I could see that.
00:11:52:00 - 00:11:55:20
Joyann Boyce
But they were slicing, slicing words.
00:11:55:22 - 00:12:14:04
Jade Pett
Well, it makes me think when you used to do the newspapers back in the day, because that's how they would like format they wouldn't it how to like lay it all out because they didn't have like programs to do on a computer, they’d have to like physically. So I just assumed that that was like way back when.
00:12:14:06 - 00:12:26:05
Joyann Boyce
Way back in ancient times. Okay. And then overall, what is your biggest highlight from this season, would you say?
00:12:26:07 - 00:12:53:10
Jade Pett
My biggest highlight. I think, I think one thing that I really noticed from these episodes was how much inclusive marketing has spread because all of our guests had their own sectors that they were knowledgeable in. When I suppose like the fact that we inviting them onto the podcast is a bit of a giveaway that they probably know a bit about inclusive marketing already, but all of them had their own advice and their own stuff to contribute to the conversation.
00:12:53:10 - 00:13:08:16
Jade Pett
I suppose. So just how like, it's not, people aren't stumbling, going I don't really know what to inclusive marketing is, they all were able to tell you what they think it is. So just how far it's kind of come and how it is getting momentum.
00:13:08:18 - 00:13:36:03
Joyann Boyce
Definitely. I think that has been amazing to see that it's, it's expanding and the fact that we can speak to people. We've had two guests from America, so many different industries, it's growing. I'm excited to see what else is next. I think my biggest highlight kind of on a personal note, this season has felt a lot more chilled, a lot more prepared than the first one.
00:13:36:05 - 00:14:11:04
Joyann Boyce
I feel like podcast marketing and podcast editing and planning was not in my skillset as a marketer, but I have enjoyed at least the guest part of it. I will admit I have not done the editing, but I've enjoyed the conversations. I've enjoyed the element of being able to speak to people about the passion I have and I guess the casualness of the conversations as well.
00:14:11:06 - 00:14:45:19
Joyann Boyce
Probably. It's been hard for you to edit when we go on tangents and so forth, Jade But I think that's been my biggest highlight every single guest I've spoken to has sparked an idea, a thought, something that I didn't think about, something around, you know, how the fields are expanding. Some use case that I hadn't thought about and every single guest has put a perspective in my mind that I wasn't aware to.
00:14:45:19 - 00:15:09:09
Joyann Boyce
I wasn't accounting for. And I think that is part of one of the things I do say about, you know, the ways to expand your creativity and make it more inclusive is to expose yourself to more variety. On that note, though, I do want to put out a tiny little caveat. I would love to, but I don't know if we would.
00:15:09:11 - 00:15:13:15
Joyann Boyce
I would love to speak to someone who doesn't believe it should be a thing.
00:15:13:17 - 00:15:18:00
Jade Pett
Yes. Yes.
00:15:18:02 - 00:15:40:21
Joyann Boyce
I don't know how we find this person because our network is quite biased. The work I do is quite biased to say that it should be a thing, but I would love to have a conversation with someone and if someone's listening to this podcast, I guess, I don’t know f you would be our fan base. But if you are and you're not convinced inclusive marketing is a thing at all, let's chat.
00:15:40:21 - 00:15:54:04
Joyann Boyce
Come on. I want to have a conversation. I want to understand the perspectives because I really need to know how, how, how wide the world is.
00:15:54:06 - 00:16:00:12
Jade Pett
Or if you know someone in your life that doesn't believe in inclusive marketing and you're always arguing about it, then send them our way.
00:16:00:14 - 00:16:24:03
Joyann Boyce
Send them our way. We want to have a good old conversation, and the conversation is not to convince them at all. Like I very much believe in, people make decisions and implement things, especially when it comes to your job that is your career. You know, the decisions you make in your job are based on how it's going to benefit you and the organisation you work for.
00:16:24:05 - 00:16:54:18
Joyann Boyce
I'm just fascinated to know, because I have theoretical objections in my head to why people think it's not a thing. Either they think it's, you know, a tick box or they think it's a fad or they think, you know, it's making their job harder. Those are the objections I have. And I've kind of translated from things people have said, but we haven't had anyone on the podcast that's been like outright no, no inclusive.
00:16:54:20 - 00:16:55:24
Jade Pett
Pushback.
00:16:56:01 - 00:17:15:12
Joyann Boyce
No. So very much open to that. Okay. And then yeah, Jade, what on the learning or the behind the scenes aspect, would you say it's been a highlight for you?
00:17:15:14 - 00:17:51:00
Jade Pett
I think, so we kind of played around with our promotion this time around and I think as the season went on, the clips that were being pulled for the promotion got progressively more and more. I don't want to say clickbaitey, like a spicy, more daring. It might also just like coincide with like that our guests like had more secrets and stories and things, but learning about kind of podcast promotion was something that was on my mind a lot this, this time around.
00:17:51:02 - 00:17:53:24
Jade Pett
And I think that's been really fun to explore.
00:17:54:01 - 00:18:28:22
Joyann Boyce
Definitely because this has been a whole remit of a new skill set as well. And the reaction to some of the clips that we've been putting out. And I think clickbait sometimes I think is okay because at the end of the day, depending on the use case, I don't think our content is like the definition of clickbait, you know, because clickbait is you click into the content and it's not what you expected or the clips that we've put out have been spicy recently, but we answer to spice, we add to the spice while we provide.
00:18:28:22 - 00:18:31:14
Jade Pett
Provide spice.
00:18:31:16 - 00:18:56:06
Joyann Boyce
We provide the context, we provide the explanation. If you come in and you listen, you know, and I don't think based on some of the clips I do see our stuff is not damaging is, is to start conversation. And it really has in some cases. Yeah the SEO world is spicy. I did not know, I did not know how spicy.
00:18:56:06 - 00:19:02:17
Jade Pett
No, I wasn't expecting that one to pop off to be honest. But fair play.
00:19:02:17 - 00:19:34:17
Joyann Boyce
If anyone is on X or formerly known as Twitter, I need to stop rolling my eyes when I say that. The platform X formerly known as Twitter, there's a thread that kicked off around, you know, can you call yourself an SEO person? And there were a lot of opinions and thoughts going on there in terms of spiciness or controversial to be the technical word for it.
00:19:34:19 - 00:20:13:14
Joyann Boyce
Something I do want to explore in future seasons is would you publish this, which is a mini series I explored on my LinkedIn where we shared campaigns that were either band or considered inclusive and ask people the straight up question. Would you approve this to be published? I think it'd be good to explore that with future guests because it was interesting to see people's comments on LinkedIn about why they either disapproved even on the inclusive ads, or I had some people say to me in person, oh, I didn't know what to say because I couldn't see anything wrong.
00:20:13:14 - 00:20:16:11
Joyann Boyce
And I'm like, well, you could say publish.
00:20:16:13 - 00:20:20:20
Jade Pett
Yeah, you could say, yes, it's okay.
00:20:20:22 - 00:20:23:20
Joyann Boyce
That's fine. Is, yeah.
00:20:23:22 - 00:20:28:03
Jade Pett
They think you’re tricking them out. That's the problem.
00:20:28:05 - 00:20:44:09
Joyann Boyce
People don't trust me anymore. Oh gosh. That's why I would be excited again. Going back to having a guest who doesn't believe it. It'd be good to have the discussion.
00:20:44:11 - 00:20:52:10
Jade Pett
Yes. Like, actually they could point out what their problem is with, like specific ads. That’d be really interesting.
00:20:52:15 - 00:20:57:10
Joyann Boyce
And why they think there was nothing wrong with a campaign or.
00:20:57:12 - 00:21:01:02
Jade Pett
Yes.
00:21:01:04 - 00:21:11:07
Joyann Boyce
Okay. Well, this season has been absolutely amazing. It's been amazing to have you as a viewer or a listener,
00:21:11:07 - 00:21:18:01
Joyann Boyce
make sure you subscribe. This is how we know and let us know what you want to see in season three.
00:21:18:01 - 00:21:46:13
Joyann Boyce
Let us know what you want to hear. Let us know where you have questions. Let us know what you think about ideas, about having controversial guests on and so forth. And what is your favourite episode. But either way, thank you so much for being the listener of Marketing Made Inclusive podcast and we'll see you next season. Make sure to like and subscribe wherever you are.
00:21:46:15 - 00:21:56:18
Joyann Boyce
You can find me anywhere on the Internet at Joyann Boyce. J O Y A N N B O Y C E and where can the people find you, Jade?
00:21:56:20 - 00:22:03:09
Jade Pett
You can find me on LinkedIn at Jade Pett. That's Pett with two T's on the end.
00:22:03:11 - 00:22:08:22
Joyann Boyce
So have a lovely day whenever you're listening to this and see you next season.
